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In Development - CH Gin Basket

edited August 2014 in Configuration

The excitement continues.

In the vein of Carter-Head style gin baskets (Google Carter Head), we've been working toward a modular setup for the hobbyist and the small distillery. Typically, these are quite large and this is our scaled down version.

A little background about the Carter Head (lets call it CH for short). The botanicals in the basket tend to slather oily flavors onto the distilling equipment. If a basket is placed inline with the boiler then the boiler gets contaminated with those flavors and must be manually cleaned. If placed above the product condenser then the fine particles of the botanicals contaminate the distillate. The off-set basket design is incorporated to eliminate or minimize these problems.

The idea is to be able to make rapid basket changes safely. With a boiler charge of clean neutral the goal is to extract the flavors from the botanicals into a potent distillate that will later be blended to create a fine spirit.

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As shown is a 4" x 10" gin basket housing configured both left hand and right hand with a 3-way valve to control the vapor flow. The handle of the 3-way valve points to the active housing.

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Obviously a stop needs to be fabricated to keep the handle from being placed in the unsafe position and blocking the vapor flow from the boiler.

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Comments

  • kind of like the linked ball valves minime made for the splitter head vm? so no valve could be fully closed at one time...

  • TWO gin heads on one still? Ok. Now you're just showing off. :)

    Do you have an ETA? I'm salivating.

  • How are the small fittings going to stand up to the weight once condensors full of coolant and parrots are hanging off there Lloyd, have you tested?

    Looks like a little flex there already.

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  • edited May 2013

    punkin said: Looks like a little flex there already.

    No. Its just bad photography.

    image

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    Pipe hanger installed to prevent the 3-way valve handle from being moved into the unsafe position.

    image

    The prototype screen baskets and the grid stands they sit on. I'm happy with the stands but the screen baskets seem a bit flimsy. I've ordered a more robust basket prototype to be made. I had no problems with the screen basket though. It held over 1.2 liters of raw rice and would certainly do the job that its intended to do. It's just not the quality that I'm looking for.

    With luck, this project will be ready in a month or so and available worldwide about 2 months after then.

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  • Hi,

    looking good.

    Instead of having the reflux condenser on top like a VM setup, can't you simply come off the top of the 4' depleg onto a 4-2" reducer then use a 90 in 2" to connect to the basket? That would allow the column to be put into full reflux to swap baskets & not need a second product condenser (in the dual CH setup) or another reflux condenser as shown in the post above..

  • edited May 2013

    No matter how you configure it, it seems you need 2 condensers. Either dephlem or product.

    The possibilities are endless! And crozdog, as usual, is absolutely correct.

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  • Lloyd, That is exactly how I pictured it...

    bring it on!

  • This configuration, crozdog, means shutting down the boiler to make a basket change.

    Always a trade off from optimum performance and convience to price of parts.

    That's the strength of modular though, you can configure anything that you want.

    On display on this thread is the best of both, low cost vs increased cost. More effort vs less effort.

    Fully modular gives more options. By thinking your way through what you want to acheive you can count on StillDragon. No one else seems to get it. The future of distilling is all about choices. The ability to mix and match, to re-configure and to use existing still parts to acheive something new. To repurpose, reuse and reconfigure.

    Pity those that have a still that's welded in solid and cannot change.

    The SD advantage is to be able to use the modular parts to your greatest benefit.

  • Lloyd, why can't you just throw the reflux condensor into full reflux to knock down all the vapour and then change the basket?

    This is the idea i was trying to sound out with you a couple of weeks ago.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • @punkin said: Lloyd, why can't you just throw the reflux condensor into full reflux to knock down all the vapour and then change the basket?

    This is the idea i was trying to sound out with you a couple of weeks ago.

    That's what I was saying too :-)

  • There would still be hot product in the basket area that would vaporize... and in the piping as well it could be a flash... issue... i am sure that's his thoughts

  • Nah, temp drops pretty quickly and there is a valve there to drain any liquid.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • There's a lot of mass in the gin head basket and herbs in the basket.... more vapor than your anticipating i tell ya ...

  • edited May 2013

    @punkin said: Lloyd, why can't you just throw the reflux condensor into full reflux to knock down all the vapour and then change the basket?

    This is the idea i was trying to sound out with you a couple of weeks ago.

    That's what this configuration is for, Punkin...

    image

    I'm told, but don't know first hand, that you need to push the vapor through the basket has hard as you can. That's why the 3-way valve. It directs all the vapor to the gin head.

    During basket changes you can throttle back on the boiler power and switch the valve over to direct the vapor to the reflux condenser and completely isolate the gin head from the vapors.

    I've ordered "choke washers" to be made. It reduces the 2" opening to 18mm.

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    One to be placed immediately before and after the basket housing. This should increase the vapor speed inside the basket. I'm told by an experienced gin distiller that the basket should be fed with a 3/4" or smaller pipe to get the vapor speed up but I just cannot hang the weight of the gin head and condenser on a 3/4" pipe.

    I am completely uncertain if the "after" choke washer is needed or not.

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  • edited May 2013

    But what we are saying lloyd is that you can do exactly the same thing, cheaper and easier (and safer) by using this configuration here...

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    All you need to do is open the water feed to the 4" dephlamator that is under the basket until the unit is in total reflux? Then all the vapour is being knocked back down, there are no valves or extra condensors needed for anyone who has a dash, only a couple of 90's and the gin head.

    I'm not the smartest cookie, and but i can't see why this won't work?

    I don't want to start an argument, i just need to understand the problem that i'm not seeing

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  • No arguement from me, I'm sure it will work. For the hobbyist the above is perfect. For the micro-distiller the other options might be better, especially the duel head setup.

    More than one way to skin this cat and I'm sure we'll soon see other ways to configure these as soon as they become available.

    (and I really should dress up that housing with a SGK)

  • It's starting to look good, but I miss a safety valve for safety reasons ... and as we all know, you become affected by alcohol and then everything can be going wrong ....

    Cheers :ar!

  • edited May 2013

    Lloyd, Is it possible? To have some 3" dia x 10" long baskets made to fit inside 3" copper tube oh please please please ! :-). I have a essence attachment for my splitter( on the far right in the photo) but haven't really found anything out there that will work besides multiple tea baskets. It would be way better to have your basket design!

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  • @ Harley, a over-pressure safety valve is ALWAYS a very good idea! The only one that I've found here is all SS and has a tamper-proof seal where it passed inspection and was set at a Bar pressure that I don't remember now. What I DO remember is that it cost $600. Would the domestic hot water tank safety valve available at stores like Home Depot be acceptable? I'm not sure of their construction and if they are safe to use with alcohol.

    @ Nake, well... first there is the mold fee for the basket (about $125 for the screen basket) and if you make any change you get to pay it again. Then there is minimum order, which for the screen baskets is quite low, of only 200 pieces.

  • Ok I will make my own:-) thank you

  • I do not know if safety valves for water heaters are alcohol resistant! but you may get that info little later from me, because I will avail myself of those at 1.5 bar, it was them by at least opening pressure that I found and they are rated and approved here in Sweden as safety valves for water heaters and if I manage to get this approved it remains to be seen, but I will try anyway ...

    Cheers :ar!

  • The choke washers arrived today. One more baby step closer.

  • edited June 2013

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    The heavier duty basket was built a bit too big to fit the housing so the company will re-tool to make the correct size. So many delays with this project but that gives me time to scheme on ways to improve the design.

    The 2" SGK was finally put into the picture and a 2" 90 bend is being made now that will include a thermowell and 3/4" ferrule making it possible for CIP (clean in place) by clipping a valve to the ferrule. A 3/4" 180 bend is on order to allow the valve to point down. More pictures when those parts arrive.

    When the basket finally arrives then its off to the box factory to get custom boxes made for this kit.

    Should the 90 bends be included with the boxed kit or sold separately? I'm thinking without because some people may already own some 90's. I plan for 2 filter baskets with each kit.

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  • Sell it both ways. As a total kit and as individual pieces.

  • 90's as individual needs require them, extra baskets as a wear item

  • edited June 2013

    @monty said: Sell it both ways. As a total kit and as individual pieces.

    That makes sense to me, Monty. Thank you. Sometimes I get lost by over-thinking things but also try to keep an eye on the distributor having to stuff the boxes.

    A total kit without the 90's it is unless someone can persuade me otherwise. And individual parts available as FS and Monty suggest.

    StillGonnaPut2basketsInTheBoxThoughBecauseIbeleiveInBasketChanges

  • Gin Baskets as separate items because people will want them for something they will make for themselves....

  • Looking excellent Lloyd. How far is my friends one off? I'd like to put it in with my next order. i'll check with him if he wants right or left handed.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • I can get him one now but it will have the wire mesh baskets and I already know he is a southpaw.

  • No worries, you're on the ball.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

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