Dephlagmator as a Product Condensor

I've done a few test runs with my Ace/Baby Crystal Dragon, Two were cleaning runs and the other was a stripping run using a plate with a bit of reflux from the RC, my first impressions of the Big baby dephlegmator when used on a 2" column is it's far too big and I could have quite easily have got the baby version and it would have been sufficient for the job, anyway I'm not moaning about it, it's a nice bit of kit but I'm thinking I might get the baby version to use as my main RC and use the big baby as a product condensor, has anyone tried this?

Comments

  • I can't answer your specific question, but there is no such thing as too big a condenser. All else equal, a larger condenser will let you run lower flow rates and achieve a higher exit temperature, which means saving water if you are using municipal supply. It also means you can run higher input temperature if running recirculating. It's usually "too small" that is the real problem.

  • A bit more info,,, My water is not metered where I live in the UK, I just pay a flat rate per month so I can use (waste) as much as I like, I've found I only need a quarter turn open on my needle valve to get enough reflux to run the plates and I can easily get 100% reflux with a couple of turns open, so far as input temperature goes, in my previous experiance running VM/LM setups, the boiler power should always be the minimum required to run the still, it only takes 0.2°c increase measured on a VM/LM output to pull tails through into the product, so it has always been best practice for me to keep the boiler power to the minimum required for the cleanest product output, I beleve you would encounter the same problem if you run a CM setup with too much power. So with unlimited cold water, I'm thinking the baby dephlag will do the job of RC and I'll get away with the big baby as PC

  • Sorry @grim I thought you were referring to boiler power when you talked about input temperature but I've just realised you were referring to input water temp

  • Dephlegmators are usually shorter than Product Condensers, as they are supposed to be able to let some adjustable portion of vapor pass.

    They could pose as Product Condensers in some cases...low speed vapor and or add some resistance/turbulence to the vapor tubes. It would be sketchy...

    DAD... not yours.. ah, hell... I don't know...

  • If your water is cold enough and you run slow enough, sure it will work.

    Most of us don't have the choice/patience.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • Yeah my waters cold, (8°c) at present, with good pressure too, maybe it's the time of year but I can't get output above 15°c from my current PC it's a single copper liebig, 15mm inner with a 28mm outer and it's about 85cm long, I'm going to shorten it, maybe by a 3rd to 50cm to give me more control, the big baby dephlag meter has 3 x 16mm tubes at 15cm each, so possibly equivalent to a 45-50cm single liebig, I'll just have to hope it's still up to the job in mid summer when the input water is a little warmer.

  • @Anavrin said: so far as input temperature goes, in my previous experiance running VM/LM setups, the boiler power should always be the minimum required to run the still, it only takes 0.2°c increase measured on a VM/LM output to pull tails through into the product, so it has always been best practice for me to keep the boiler power to the minimum required

    This could be more to do with your reflux ratio. I actually aim to run my VM column at 80% of the maximum power it can handle before flooding. All the control of product quality is done via coolant flow rate and reflux ratio.

    I am not sure if there is a generic concensus on the boiler power level of a plated column relative to the max power to flood the plates.

    I believe some operators actually run their plates in a flooded condition. @punkin did you mention this prevoiusly?

  • Hi @Myles, I do worry about using too much power and have always kept it to a minimum, if it's the case I can run it harder without affecting the product then happy days but I would like to hear from a few people who've done it before I try it, I now have 4 plates and a short packed section, in the past I just had a long packed section and found two things that could spoil my product, first was too much power would decrease my product ABV and smear it with tails, second was too much RC cooling can also reduce ABV, both too much power or too much RC cooling affects the dynamics of the packed section, for example if your reflux return liquid is too cold it cools the top of the packed section and reduces the number of Theoretical plates, similarly too much power pushes the theoretical plates up the colum, and as I understand it, they are not equally spaced or the same height, they are further apart at the bottom of a packed section and closer together at the top, they are dynamic in that they move depending on conditions such as heat, wash ABV and the temperature of the reflux return liquid,

    So by keeping the power to a level just above where reflux starts I'm ensuring the maximum number of theoretical plates excist, also by running my RC as hot as I can get away with ensures I'm not over cooling the top of the cloumn, This is not as critical in a still with only pyhsical plates but I'm running a hybrid so I'm trying to apply the same principles in the way I run it, plates are new to me, so Is CM control, I'm looking to do my first proper spirit run soon, maybe next weekend, hopefully I'll get to grips with it :-)

  • Nah, myles that was Larry with old mate taking off 50l of vodka?

    I tune my VM by listening at the top of the condensor till i can hear it flooding and turning it down just enough to decrease the noise, so JUST on flooded.

    Sounds like a train coming towards you through a tunnel. :))

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • @punkin thanks. How much power are you generally applying to the plates relative to the flood ed condition. The downcomers and procaps seem to be able to handle significant volumes of reflux flowing through them. That equates to a fair bit of power. Lloyd mentioned earlier about 1.8kw for each procap on the 5" trials

  • I run gas Myles.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

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