Fester's Corner

FullySilenced · 29 June 2013 08:44PM

How are you gonna crate it... looks like a big question ... a foam in place box might be the answer to protect the glass...

punkin · 29 June 2013 08:59PM

There are custom boxes with foam inserts that hold two chimneys in each box.

Lloyd · 29 June 2013 10:23PM

It was assembled just for show, it won't ship like that. Like Punkin said there are custom boxes made for the glass chimneys with black foam insulation that wrap the glass and protect the ends.
I tested it by packing 2 chimneys in the box and dropping it 9 feet onto concrete 3 times. The glass survived although my nerves were a little frayed. Trying to defeat the postal brutality is one thing, getting glass through UPS's new automated package crushing machine is another :D

Lloyd · 29 June 2013 10:55PM

Received 6 sample 4" perf plates with 2mm holes so I set up a 6 plate 4" Crystal Dragon to test it. Results were not so good. I couldn't stop the plates from weeping no matter how much power i put into the boiler. At this time of year the mains water is cool but not cold so the 4" dephlem can only knock down about 3.6 to 4kW so I overpowered the dephlem with about 4.6kW and I still couldn't stop the weeping.
Really happy I tested this before ordering 600 plates.

FullySilenced · 30 June 2013 01:25AM

so your gonna drop down to 1.5 mm holes same number or holes? then you can enlarge the next batch gradually till at the correct size?

RedDoorDistillery · 30 June 2013 01:29AM

see 1.5mm holes were the right call for the 8"

Lloyd · 30 June 2013 02:10AM

@FullySilenced said: so your gonna drop down to 1.5 mm holes same number or holes? then you can enlarge the next batch gradually till at the correct size?

Hoping to get it right soon. LOO sent some 4" plates to me that were drilled to 1.5mm and they worked really well with the same grid. I have to pay a new set up fee for every change so wanting to nail it this time.

FullySilenced · 30 June 2013 03:24AM

If you like make the holes 1.25 mm then you can manually drill them larger if need be... with a hand drill even... or a small drill press ... if you wanna be sure you get it correct on the next batch

Law_Of_Ohms · 30 June 2013 04:51AM

250x 6, thats only 1500 holes to drill.... @ 3 seconds a hole is only 75mins!

Lloyd · 30 June 2013 07:01AM

I'm not sure if you guys can access this video link or not but it shows the weeping.

Weeping

I'm not equipped to make the plates myself, it's really better to get the laser cutter people to do it. Once we get it right the copies should be a cinch. We vend a large number of copper bubble plates so 600 pieces of 4" SS perf plates sounds about right for the first production run. I'd prefer, of course, not to make 600 mistakes so the little that it costs for the setup fee is a good investment.
Slowly getting there.

Moonshine · 30 June 2013 07:24AM

@Lloyd, yes, can be accessed.

FullySilenced · 30 June 2013 02:07PM

guess drilling the holes versus having new ones programmed and cut would be a...depends on the cost kinda thing...

i would stack the plates and drill em all in one session but that's me if they are charging a couple hundred bucks to reprogram and recut the plates i would make them undersize and run the plates then drill them larger and run them again till they were just right... especially if you know 2mm is too large and the 1.5mm' plates LOO made were ok... next step would be somewhere in between...

harley · 30 June 2013 11:47PM

Corrected calculations:

97,70mm column diameter between 2pc 4” ferrules = wet active plate size = 29.987,41 mm3 volume

SD downcomers = 22mm = 1.520,53 mm3 volume

29.987,41 - 1.520,53 = 28.466,88 mm3 volume = wet active plate area between 2pc 4” ferrules with 1pc SD downcomer subtracted

Hole  | Volume | % to number of holes
===============================================================================================
1,5mm |   7,07 | 7% = 281pc | 8% = 322pc | 9% = 362pc | 10% = 402pc (this is what a think is max)
1,6mm |   8,04 | 7% = 247pc | 8% = 283pc | 9% = 318pc
1,7mm |   9,08 | 6% = 188pc | 7% = 219pc | 8% = 250pc
1,8mm |  10,18 | 6% = 167pc | 7% = 195pc
1,9mm |  11,34 | 6% = 150pc | 7% = 175pc
2,0mm |  12,57 | 6% = 135pc | 7% = 158pc

Now you all can't do this wrong

The higher you go up the hole % the lower the liquid level on the plates, probably 10-12mm is appropriate if over 8%, but also the number of plates = many plates less liquid level on plate, this also matters .. something that must be determined in real life ...

Cheers

Lloyd · 1 July 2013 12:48AM

Thanks Harley for the useful information.
FS, I've given the laser cutter people a lot of business lately and they don't seem to mind making 6 plates at a time for me until I get this worked out. Their fee is not so bad.
I've already ordered the 1.5mm samples or I probably should order the 1.7mm samples too just to save some time. 250 little holes per plate.

FullySilenced · 1 July 2013 01:51AM

1

harley · 1 July 2013 09:07AM

Hey Fester and Fs If you should order the sieve plates to SELL, then they must fitt ALL peopel, and then I had personally chosen to put me at 7% and 1.5 mm - 1.6 mm holes, this you can order 600pc without testing. YES... in 7%= 1.5mm = 281pc or 1.6 mm = 247pc. NOTE BIGGER HOLE....ore more hole % This is SAFE and works great for everyone, and it is also little faster than bubbelcaps plate ...

Ångra ändringarna

Lloyd · 12 July 2013 03:28PM

Extreme hybrid. Six 4" perf plates under a 510mm (20") x 4" packed section using the SS wool that @minime recommended.

Many of you know I bought 200 liters of ethanol (because it was the minimum order) to test out the gin basket. It is contaminated with heads to the point that its undrinkable even by me so I wanted to clean it up in preperation of being able to extract flavors using the new gin head.

A standard setup of 6 plates will easily give 95+% but its not neutral by a long shot, it still carries over too much flavor to be truly called neutral. By adding the packed 4" section I achieved a very clean neutral without the fuss of using a VM valve. As you can see it is pure CM and dead easy to run.

I loaded the 50L boiler with 10L of the 95% stuff and topped up with water so the boiler charge was about 35 to 40% or so. I discarded the first 1.5 liters because it tasted bad but the next 7 liters or so I kept. All good stuff. I noted that as the run progressed the product became less hot tasting and towards the end of the run it was so soft and smooth that when watered down to 40% it was completely without any character at all. The pepper at the back of the tongue was gone about half way through the run.

I should also note that I packed the SS wool into the 4" tube very, very tightly. Much tighter than you would normally pack a column using copper mesh. This worked very well and I plan to try the same experiment without the plates but using two 4" x 510mm packed sections.

No doubt that this was the best neutral that I've ever made. I was perhaps too careful and conservative as I was pulling only 3 liters per hour of VERY neutral azeotrope and probably could have pushed it up to 4 liters or more per hour but was so happy with the quality I didn't want to screw with a good thing.

punkin · 12 July 2013 05:17PM

I love that stumpy glass column. Can't wait till they are released. How long till the customers can expect to start seeing them mate?

Lloyd · 13 July 2013 12:15AM

Very limited stock will be available in the US in about 2 weeks for both the 4" and 8". It will take about 2 months to get fully stocked because most of the parts have just been completed and the next sea freight will leave in 10 days or so. Some parts will arrive with the sea freight that is due to land in about a week (maybe, depending on how long it takes to clear through customs). The rest, like the special gaskets, will need to be expressed.
I'm leaving it up to the customers to provide the rods. They can be fashioned from all-thread or, if skills permit, end threaded bar stock.

punkin · 13 July 2013 01:16AM

Ahhh, no worries, may price up some brass rod here and see how it'd go for customer orders. No trouble putting a thread on the ends. Stainless would be a bit more difficult for me. Maybe annodised alloy if i can get it?

FullySilenced · 13 July 2013 01:19AM

glass clear acrylic rod cut to length with the ends drilled and tapped... would look awesome... long as the silicone gaskets seal ....

punkin · 13 July 2013 02:47AM

ATM looking at stainless allthread with a stainless mirror polished tube to cover it.

Lloyd · 13 July 2013 03:59AM

@punkin said: ATM looking at stainless allthread with a stainless mirror polished tube to cover it.

That could work out perfect to help people from over tightening the nuts. It doesn't take much to get a good seal.

Lloyd · 13 July 2013 08:26AM

The quest for the most absolutely neutral neutral continues.
Has anyone ever tried this before? Well, I'll give it a shot this evening...

Inline carbon filtering
4" etched disk between a short section of 4" TC pipe and a 4" bubble tee. The short section was so the carbon could be removed from the column without making a mess. The bubble tee I just had laying around so used that. Shown with 400 grams of activated carbon.

Topped it with another filter disk thinking it may help to disperse the reflux from the dephlegmator but after washing it with very hot water in the sink, even at full flow, the water just runs straight through the disk.

The inline carbon filter is above the 4" packed section.

It's ready to run the test but lots of Gin Basket parts are arriving now so I'll need to get to this a bit later. I'll load the boiler with the 7 liters of clean neutral from last nights' run. I'll keep a sample to compare the before and after.
In theory the carbon should be constantly refreshed by the rising vapors and falling reflux.

Lloyd · 13 July 2013 08:31AM

PS, also thought the gin basket would be good for this idea too but wanted to try this out first. The whole idea may be just a waste of time but I just HAVE TO try it.
My curiosity got the best of me.

harley · 13 July 2013 10:59AM

Try lowering the fluid level on the plates as much as we possibly can a suggestion to between 5mm - 10mm and see how this affects the purity, strength learn safely reduce the purity Should probably increase ... There's a reason why almost all commercial manufacturers have 20pc sieve plates in a column and it is not only the strength but also the purity ... but something that is not fully explored, it is trough deep impact on the purity when you have a small number of plates and 1.5 mm holes .. just a suggestion of intentions to move this to the max ... Cheers

harley · 13 July 2013 11:07AM

lava rocks may be an option to have the top instead of ss steel wool to compensate for the lack in the number of sieve plates and even maintain the flow...

Lloyd · 13 July 2013 01:31PM

If only I had the ceiling height I'd have lots more plates, Harley. The SS wool actually did pretty well this time after taking @minime's advice and packing it MUCH tighter than one would think.

We started assembling the Gin Baskets so I ran out of time today to try out the inline carbon filter. Maybe tomorrow.

We're sending a 40' cargo container to USA very soon and it has some room left so we're trying to get as much together as quickly as we can to stuff inside the container. 24 boilers was too much for a 20' container and is a bit wasteful for a 40'. The boilers are ready to load and I don't want to delay them but also don't want the gin baskets to wait for the next sea freight. By this time next week I'll order the container to be sent to the port, with a little luck 20 of the gin baskets will be in it.
Of the first 50 I figure USA is good for 20. Punkin for 10 and EU for 10. That will leave me 10 so send wherever they are needed the most.

A new product is always so hard to predict demand. I think they will be popular enough to make another batch of 50 or even 100 kits before the end of the year.
With such a great value, only $400 for the kit, I feel they will be good movers. We'll see.

harley · 13 July 2013 01:44PM

You make an incredibly good job in china without you, there was no SD, and we all try to help you, so you end up with so optimalal products as we possibly can ... but try to be a little free now when it's summer, and soon it is over and here in Sweden, it is autumn long .... too damn long for me actually ... Cheers

Lloyd · 13 July 2013 02:38PM

You are so right Harley, our vacation is long overdue and I have promised the slavedriver, the person most responsible for getting things done here, the love of my life and the most difficult person to argue with, a true and proper vacation.

Thanks for the kind words. We always seek the best value for the customer. We have already accepted that other companies will (and are) copying our products but we cannot concern ourselves about that. We just keep on doing the good job knowing that the imitators are simply that - imitators.

Sorry for the rant but I've had a long, hard day and I see where some Aussie guy is plagiarizing our items and saying he worked sooo hard to develop them. Others did it too but I'll not name names, caugh, caugh, milehi, caugh.

All in good fun I'm sure. Olddog tried to warn me about the Aussie guy but I didn't take it serious until I saw pictures of my work on his website and he was taking credit for it.

I would reciprocate and knock off his stuff just to tick him off but he has nothing I want. And I mean nothing. Same with milehi, the only upgrade they have done in years was to plagiarize StillDragon's Dash. I'd copy their line if only they had something interesting because we would certainly beat their price and quality. I might do it anyway just to poke them in the eye.

Wow, sorry, I can get a bit competitive when the competition steals from me, especially when they have nothing worthwhile for me to knock off just to anger them.

Like I said, it was a long, hard day and we put together most of the subassemblies of the gin basket kits.

I give it 4 to 6 months before the Aussie guy plagiarizes the thermowells and gin basket too and claims to have originated the concept. Perhaps Punkin should sell one to him to make his development easier? What a flake that guy is. Let me show you his integrity, look very close

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