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Reflux Still from SD Parts

I was searching through the SD.com.au site and started thinking about how I could piece together a reflux still that would pump out good quality neutral in the same stead as a VM/LM still. Using the parts I have I was thinking of putting a 5" to 3" bowl reducer on the bottom of my dephleg and a few sections of 510mm 3" pipe. I know that there is a 5 plates + packed section option that works quiet well, but as always there are height restrictions to consider and I know that fitting a packed section on top of my still is never going to work!

Option two would be to have the packed section in 4" but is this getting a bit big for a reflux still? Ultimately it would need to perform on par with my VM/LM to be worth while because I am also considering some modifications to the still to make it modular instead (3" Copper ferrules etc etc). Its kind of annoying to have a 1 piece unit of this size once you have a modular system which easily break down.

These type of things tend to go in cycles and I know that there are a lot of great experimenters here, so I doubt this is a new idea! The real question is it on par with a VM/LM? Here's an outline:...

image

VM CM
  1. How well will this work?4 votes
    1. Great, should be easy to run and give good results on par with VM/LM
      75.00%
    2. Average, no major issues but not quiet as good as a VM/LM
      25.00%
    3. Below average, don't expect miracles, it will work.
        0.00%
    4. Dud idea
        0.00%
«1

Comments

  • I like the voting system. I was thinking about this myself after reading the entire Big Vodka and Neutral threads. A packed column underneath a deph should work...yes....no.....maybe?

  • I voted average for 1 reason only. A packed VM when set up for neutral is virtually foolproof, it shuts down on its own with the approach of tails. A CM is probably better, but you need to adjust it during the run. To be honest it is swings and roundabouts.

    For a purely neutral use rig I would pick a combined VM/LM. Oh yes I should mention I am biased because that is precisely what I did. :))

  • Load that up with SPP and for each 2.5CM of 3" column you have one HETP... would equal about 20 plates...

    FS

  • A tee below your reflux condensor with a valve on the branch is all you need to convert it to VM.

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  • @myles I'm not sure if you remember my emails but my LM/VM is your design. Its a great piece of kit with split vapour paths, it happily chugs out clean neutral at 7L an hour. Unfortunately Im under wife stress to actively minimise my stilling gear, which at the moment takes up 1/2 the garage. Perhaps the best of both worlds is a CM/VM!

  • edited February 2015

    @vooharmy said: Unfortunately Im under wife stress to actively minimise my stilling gear, which at the moment takes up 1/2 the garage. Perhaps the best of both worlds is a CM/VM!

    Or

    • the WHOLE garage
    • a bigger garage
    • a separate distilling room
    • your own distillery

    :-\"

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  • You forgot one obvious option @Moonshine... ;)

    I'm more like I am now than I was before.

  • When does a new still cost a half a million? When it's fancy and copper? No. When you need to buy the wife a new house so that she'll let you buy it!

  • @Kapea said: You forgot one obvious option Moonshine... ;)

    You mean STOP DISTILLING once and for all and get rid of all the distillation sh*t? :))

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  • No he means get rid of the wife.

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  • Hehe, that's exactly what I didn't want to say! =))

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  • Unless you can convince her that it is a present for HER!! OK good luck with that, but it might be possible. ;)

  • You can still try to convince her that the panty dropper effect is good for her! Good luck with that too. ;)

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  • most women have a better taste and nose than men. No kidding!

    So, if men start to let their wifes in in their hobby, let's say like: "darling, can you help me tasting? I need to know, if you find that vanilla-maple touch, too?" Perhaps, she can find a way into the matter and begin to like distilling too. It 's all about the way, we look at things.... ;;)

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  • edited February 2015

    Most women's sense of taste and smell diminish with age. Hence the little old ladies who take baths in perfume before going out in public.

    "Doggone those perfume makers! They just don't make it as strong as they used to. Always trying to get me to buy more!"

    I'm more like I am now than I was before.

  • @Sunshine said: most women have a better taste and nose than men. No kidding!

    So, if men start to let their wifes in in their hobby, let's say like: "darling, can you help me tasting? I need to know, if you find that vanilla-maple touch, too?" Perhaps, she can find a way into the matter and begin to like distilling too. It 's all about the way, we look at things.... ;;)

    Only works if the woman is interest in likker... I can use my wife for liqueurs, fortified wines, RumChata etc. but will see her only running when confronted with whiskey.

  • I agree with @punkin, just go full VM.

    From my experience doing this you'll need to upgrade your existing dephlag as it's not designed to knock down as much power as you'd like to throw at it in VM mode.

    Additionally do not forget that in VM mode you must leave your condenser OPEN to atmosphere for safety. Now with the top of your RC open to atmosphere you can see how important it is to ensure your RC is sized sufficient to handle the full power of your boiler AND THEN SOME. As a rule of thumb I like to go twice as big as I need. This allows for room in cooling water supply temps and some piece of mind.

  • Varhoomy has a 5" super condensor as a i recall. The other option is to wind a coil and use a condensor controlled VM unit such as @dad uses. You can delete the valve then.

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  • I really like the idea of completely eliminating the need for a physical valve on a VM.

  • daddad
    edited February 2015

    The idea of 4" isn't getting too big. But how big is your boiler and power source?

    I have a 3" x 36" CCVM and it's scaled for a keg over gas beautifully.

    image

    Mine has 30" of SPP in it with some mesh under to retain the SPP and mesh on top to spread the reflux.

    I made another for a friend with 36" of SS Scrubbie and it made azeo from the first run. Something good happens with the width.

    I have the same in 4" but the keg boiler and gas burner is almost not enough.

    I use a SD 2" x 20" Product Condenser and it flies.

    image

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    DAD... not yours.. ah, hell... I don't know...

  • daddad
    edited February 2015

    image

    Here's my idea for a CCVM CM combo.

    But when I get a bigger boiler...I' expect to put a dephlegmator on top of the 4"column.

    Clamping together some SD triclamp parts is as modular as there is.

    Y Dephlegmator.jpg
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    DAD... not yours.. ah, hell... I don't know...

  • @dad do you think you could maintain full reflux with the "Y" shaped tee? I can see it working without a problem in a traditional "T" shaped tee.

    In my old VM I used to only every use half of the condenser, in fact when I first built it I got NO flow out the valve and what I found was my condenser was sitting too low in the tee.

    Now a smarter man aka @dad would have had a light bulb moment but for me I just lifted the condenser with a spacer. I can now see how it would have been possible to eliminate the valve completely and simply run with a variable condenser height. Once the desired output strength/rate is identified you don't need to make any further adjustments.

  • daddad
    edited February 2015

    My coil takes less than half to get full reflux. It's amazing the fast response of moving the coil. It is instantaneous.

    To get 95%, I start at full down until the vapor reaches the "T" + 10 minutes. I open it approx half the takeoff and get 4-5 liters an hour. Then when tails start, I open it full and collect at about 85% till it starts to drop off. I quit at approx 80%.

    I'm sure I could get full reflux in a "Y" or a "T" with a CSST coil.

    My first idea was a coil in a "T". Seal the back and either are a dephlegmator.

    image

    I worry the "T" would pool distillate and the "Y" will not. The "T" would have to be sealed very close to the column.

    PerpenCoilDephleg.jpg
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    DAD... not yours.. ah, hell... I don't know...

  • why wouldn't you just put it in the top of the t and have the takeoff coming out the side?

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  • @punkin that's what I was thinking

  • edited February 2015

    @vooharmy yes I remember. This is one of mine with a 3" x 36" SPP column and I think this is going to be a standard home packed column size choice in a year or two.

    image

    As for the head itself it takes up about the same space as the boiler. Now if space is a consideration and compact is of prime importance I would reverse my decision from above and go straight for a CM design. I think it has huge advantages but the only drawback is that you need to monitor it and tweak (or automate) the coolant flow during the run.

    If you are already running an SD plated column then you can run the equivalent SD packed column. 3" x 36" filled with SPP should be really easy.

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  • If coil is in top of "T", trying to use a coil as a dephleg, I don't or didn't think the vapor will turn the corner. You think it would?

    DAD... not yours.. ah, hell... I don't know...

  • edited February 2015

    Well I might give the CM a blast, just need to decide on 4" or 3, now that my OD1 is tuned up it holds temps pretty damn good.

  • You lift the coil until it does.

  • It does in a valved VM, don't see why it would change it's mind if you take the valve away.

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