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Using a T500 for Stripping?

Hey, just read this on another forum. Can anyone elaborate on this as i have the t500 artisan copper edition?

EQUIPMENT
Almost any still can be used to strip, the most commonly used is probably a Pot Still. Plated Column Stills and Reflux Stills can also be used to Strip. Most reflux stills will need to be “de-tuned” That is have their packing removed before being used as a stripper. There is to the best of my knowledge at least one still that should not be used for stripping. This is the T500, it is a store bought or mass produced Reflux Still that was never designed for stripping.

Comments

  • That's just silly. I have a 2kW T500 boiler and, although a little slow, it has no problems stripping.
    I don't have their reflux still head so I can't comment on that.

    I heard of people doing "stripping runs" with a AirStill, so if they can do it with what appears to be little more than a coffee pot then the T500 would be leap years ahead of that.

  • thats what i thought Lloyd i have the copper edition and when its de tuned(all the packing taken out) it works fine would love to know why a statement of this stupidity would be allowed to be posted in a forum :-S

  • Some folks are experts on products they have never tried.
    While some items, like the AirStill, don't appeal to me enough to want to buy one it is bad form for me (or for anyone that has never used one) to attack it.

    The poster of that message was saying the T500 with the reflux column cannot be used in pot still mode?
    Like I said, I don't have access to one of their columns but I find it difficult to believe that it cannot be de-tuned.

  • Hey Brissy

    I had a T500 for a couple years before the smoke escaped and it worked perfectly as a stripping pot. And I don't know why they keep repeating the nonsense that you need to take the packing out either. Just don't use any water on the reflux leg - no cooling and eventually the packing reaches vapour temperature and it works as a pot.

    I used a packed column as well and never bothered to take the packing out when stripping. I even strip on my 4" 5 plate Bubblecap and it works fine - you do get a bit of passive reflux but who cares.

    just my $0.02 worth.

  • I think the problem relates to the size of the vapour path and the condenser capacity. If you are able to only run coolant to the product condenser then you do not need to remove packing.

    You still have the issue of vapour speed going into the condenser. I dont have a t500 but I would consider using a pot still version with a bigger condenser.

    In normal use will the standard condenser cope with full boiler power?

  • edited February 2015

    @Myles said: In normal use will the standard condenser cope with full boiler power?

    No Problem - My one had a 2kw element. The plumbing on some versions was a bit rudimentary - if you turned down the relux you also restricted the PC. In which case you (I like many others) need to improve it so as to be able to shut down the reflux without shutting off the PC - 1 extra valve and a bit of tubing does it.

    Floating around some other forums are pics of what I did.

  • edited February 2015

    I maybe a newbie when it comes to this great hobby of ours, but I started off with an Airstill back mid 2013. I did what the instructions told me to do, for the first weeks we were drinking "nail varnish" :-& I kid you not, but I knew no other way this is what the paperwork that came with it stated, who was I to question the "experts" who built it.
    Then I came across a UK forum based on the Airstill, most of the guys on there ran them and were getting good stuff off these stills to drink. I sat and read everything on the forum, one of the member posted a PDF file showing how to do a strip run followed by a spirit run.
    The difference was out of this world for us, even the missus enjoyed the drink. This fired me up and by the end of 2013 I bought a T500.....my 2 cents on the T500 is it's overpriced for what it is, but as a basic still it works, I got some very nice Vodka out of it, following a couple of guys on the forum, I built a 2" copper pothead. I worked with this setup though 2014 learning all the time, I would agree that with what I know now the T500 column leaves a lot to be desired, I don't like the bits of plastic that are part of the column, but they will strip a wash that's for sure.

    These T500 are selling for around £400 sterling (535 euros) in the UK. If only I'd known about StillDragon at the beginning....I could have saved myself a lot of money and pain.... :-? Now I have a milk can boiler with my own column for now...

    Of all the beautiful things in the world, only man can invent boredom

    Drinking rum before 11am doesn't make you an alcoholic, it makes you a Pirate

  • @Icefever I did exactly what you have done except I sold the air still to my tight ass brother and bought a t500 the neutral I get is pretty good but I know that this is a very very and I mean very entry level still it suits anyone very minimal instructions they don't even speak of stripping runs spirit runs cuts ect just pull out 4ltrs at 93% and cut back to 40% and flavour with one of our great essences and you have some of the finest home made alcohol on the market enter still dragon and after reading some of these forums and game enough to post some ?'s I feel like I'm back to square 1 but for all the good reasons Looking forward to researching as much as possible and purchasing the ace of hearts and never looking back

  • edited February 2015

    @brisvalleymoonshiner said: they don't even speak of stripping runs spirit runs cuts ect just pull out 4ltrs at 93% and cut back to 40% and flavour with one of our great essences

    I'm with you 100%

    It's all wrong we know that now, the old saying " If I knew then what I know now". On the UK forum some of the guys who started off with these Airstill hang on to them, then if they try a new wash it's not so bad if you loose a 5 liters against 25... :((

    I'm thinking that I'll sell the 500, that way I get some of the cash back....I can spend it here then... <:-P

    Of all the beautiful things in the world, only man can invent boredom

    Drinking rum before 11am doesn't make you an alcoholic, it makes you a Pirate

  • Caveat here. A 4 plate column will give its owner lots of flavor, as in whiskeys, brandies, rums, etc.
    For neutral you will need to do multiple passes through the still and/or use a very clean wash.

    I can get a fine vodka from my Ace of Hearts but I can't do it in one pass.

    Here is a point by point to help (this is only for neutral):

    From a clean 10% sugar wash I run my Ace with all the plates and reflux as I would for a spirit run. When the hearts stop I tend to stop the still as there is only about 1.5% alcohol left in the boiler and its all stinky tails anyway.

    After 2 or 3 of these 'strips' I have enough for a 'rectifying' run where I extract most of the alcohol but leave the taste and smell in the stillage (the water that's left in the boiler). Still charge of 35% or less and I make no cuts. Smell and taste the stillage - its nasty. And that's good as you managed to get that out of your spirit.

    Return the 'rectified' alcohol to the boiler for the spirit run. Dilute to less than 35% and this time make cuts. You will get heads that can be recycled but almost no tails. The hearts are as good as it gets.
    Don't try to spirit run on hearts only or your production will be too small.

    Airing overnight is a lot like aging for a year. The higher volatiles evaporate off and you have less booze but its better vodka.

    For flavored spirits its completely different:

    I put the flavorful wash, must or mash and feints from previous batches in the boiler and distill only once. I collect the heads in very small jars, the hearts in bigger jars and I might run a small jar of tails.
    After airing overnight the great art of combining the fractions take place. I know I'll want a bit of the late heads and early tails for flavor but this takes practice, patience and steady nerves.
    Taking, say, 1/2 an ounce of hearts and adding a few drops of the selected heads and tails and then diluting it down to about 30% will give you the rough idea. I say rough because it will go through changes as it ages so don't worry about the sharp edges, they transform into wonderful with enough time.

    Anyway, this is just a rough sketch but hopefully it leads you to your goal.

  • @Icefever i wont i have a customer that believe it or not buys neutral with out me doing a strip run or heads hearts cuts all i do is cut it back to 40% with filtered water and he takes it in 20ltr lots so i think ill keep mine :D

  • @Lloyd sound perfect to me i guess ill find out when i have my own ace of hearts this sounds like more fun everytime i ask more ?'s \m/

  • I left out the part about the distiller's share.
    We've all heard about the angel's share - the part that evaporates through the barrel and goes to pacify the partying angels that unanimously approve of distilling - but in every single run, strip or spirit, there is a cup or two that gets collected to pay the distiller his due.
    Often called the heart of hearts it is the dabble that becomes the distiller's tipple of choice.
    The unspoken crème de la crème.

    I thoroughly frown on such practice since the booze has not been bonded, bottled, taxed, sealed, transported and passed through innumerable hands and all without being shared with me!

    If only I could, I would distill with each and every one of you on this fine forum. But considering the number of members we now have I recon I'd best be making a request for a liver donor match, eh?

  • Its just my opinion but I think if you can run it twice through a pot still (or equivalent) it makes life easier. making cuts both times and diluting between runs gets rid of a big chunk of flavour. Two runs through a column with cuts again, and the second hearts cut is good.

    There is an alternative single reflux method, but it relies on high reflux ratios and a very slow product rate. The equivalent is 1 litre per hour on a packed 4" column.

    You either do two faster runs, or 1 SLOW run.

  • I also had a T500 that i bought in the spring of 2013. I dont know if the older ones were the same as mine but the top of the reflux head is made of plastic. Thats why i always thought they said not to strip with it.

  • @Chalmer said: I also had a T500 that i bought in the spring of 2013. I dont know if the older ones were the same as mine but the top of the reflux head is made of plastic. Thats why i always thought they said not to strip with it.

    Well mine's the same...I've been told that you don't mix high proof with plastic...one guy I know has taken his reflux column apart and it got me thinking about replacing the short piece of plastic with a piece of copper pipe ...not that you need to strip the column.not sure but it looks around 8mm maybe 10mm. I did on my airstill when I first had it..took the black plastic spout and used I (think) 8mm made it a push fit...works a treat. B-)

    Of all the beautiful things in the world, only man can invent boredom

    Drinking rum before 11am doesn't make you an alcoholic, it makes you a Pirate

  • edited February 2015

    @brisvalleymoonshiner said:

    This is the T500, it is a store bought or mass produced Reflux Still that was never designed for stripping.

    It was me who wrote that, It was written as a a part of a basic guide to stripping for newbies. The advice came from personal experience as well as that of others who have tried to use the early T500 still heads for stripping. There is no reason you cant use the boiler as long as its fitted with a pot head or maybe one of the later all copper T500 designs.
    The problem lays in the synthetic top of the older columns, it simply gets to hot and the still then starts leaking where the synthetic material meets the stainless column. I know some people have got away with using them for stripping, but many have not. If your happy to take the risk go ahead and try, see what happens for your self.
    SBB

  • Thanks @SBB_, I was going to mention it but felt the heat had gone out of this topic by the time I noticed it.

  • Lets face it...when you start with this hobby of ours, unless you have someone you know, or you read up on the subject...it's very easy to get sucked into buying one of these still...I know I did.. Do they work??..yes Do they produce good stuff??....maybe...depends on what you want to drink, at the start with the airstill the wife & I were drinking "nail varnish remover" LOL.

    Now nearly two years on from the Airstill via the T500 I've come out the other side...I know loads more about it thanks to guys on forums who take their time to lead us newbies through the minefield of stilling.

    Now I'm ready for the next step up the ladder with my milkcan boiler.
    ;)

    Of all the beautiful things in the world, only man can invent boredom

    Drinking rum before 11am doesn't make you an alcoholic, it makes you a Pirate

  • edited February 2015

    @Icefever said: I've been told that you don't mix high proof with plastic

    It's much more complex than this, every type of plastic has a set of chemicals that it's compatible with, and incompatible with. It's easy to find published compatibility charts, chemical vs. material. In some cases the detailed charts will also include information about temperature and concentration, since they play a role as well. Likewise, the time in contact is another factor to consider.

    Teflon (PTFE) is the undisputed king when it comes to ethanol compatibility. Chlorobutyl is what's used in many of the commercial spirits transfer hoses, although it's common to see EPDM in the do-all hoses. A good reinforced platinum-cured silicone will work as well, it's very commonly used in pharmaceutical manufacture involving alcohols, this is not the same as standard peroxide cured silicone hose. It's relatively common to find polypropylene in the pumps and plumbing of a spirits bottling line as well. You'd also find PP in most filtration setups, especially in cartridge filter media, which are likely either PP or Polyethersulfone (PES).

  • Thanks for clarifying that @SBB about the still head.
    But going back to the OP I can see the confusion. The T500 boiler should be perfectly adequate for stripping with a very simple still head - but not the plastic laced parts that come with the reflux still.

    I really like my T500 boiler with the Ace of Hearts on top of it... can strip or spirit distill with ease.

    Won't supply the neighborhood with booze but that's not the intent, just needs to keep me happy.

  • WOW this has gotten very interesting I thank all for the input fully appreciate @SBB_ I apologise for the stupidity comment It just sounded crazy that it couldn't be done I have the all copper edition and am planning a strip run today I presume this is done as fast and hard as possible so should it be ran around 80 deg to achieve this

  • edited February 2015

    No problem @brisvalleymoonshiner, in hindsight I should have stated the reasons why that particular still is not really up to the job of stripping.
    Ive always tried to proof read anything technical that I write for newbies, but sometimes the obvious is not so obvious to the writer.... until after its posted. Or in this case a year later.

    @brisvalleymoonshiner said: I have the all copper edition and am planning a strip run today I presume this is done as fast and hard as possible so should it be ran around 80 deg to achieve this.

    I have no hands on experience with the "all copper" version so am reluctant to give advise.
    The main factors limiting how fast you can strip are how much heat you can throw at the still, and how much heat your product condenser can handle. In short as hard and fast as you and your still are comfortable with, without over whelming the product condenser.

  • Cheers @SBB I'm 15min into the run and around the 75 deg seems to be the limit things will be different once I purchase the ace of hearts

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