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Power for a 4 inch Dash

Hi all
completely new to the world of bubble plates and StillDragon so please bear with me
been running with a T500 and also copper pot head on the same boiler and have had some pretty good results with all grain washes matured in small oak barrels
reading various threads I took the plunge and ordered a 4 inch pro cap torpedo
I ran this with the copper pot head on the boiler and obviously relied on natural reflux was well pleased with the results
being a bloke and after admiring the quality of the SD products I bought another 2 pro Plates plus a 2 inch dephlegmator media along with pipes valves etc
my question is have I jumped before I can run. Will the 1800 W boiler be sufficient to run and charge the plates. Heat up time and, within reason, runtime is not an issue as this is purely a weekend hobby and all I'm trying to achieve at this stage is a better product and basically have some fun I do intend to buy more equipment in the future and either make or buy a bigger boiler with a more powerful heater but that's for the future
any comments and advice would be appreciated

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Comments

  • What size is your boiler

  • Hello @admiraltoad, glad you made it here. :)

    You are definitely up for a larger boiler with more power in the future, the 1800W of your T500 are really entry level giving you not much headroom above let's say a Baby Crystal Dragon with 4 plates. Next step up would be our 50L Milk Can boiler. It has one element port and with something like a 3500W, 4500W (or even 5500W, if your electric circuitry supports 23~25A) electrical heating element the real fun begins. ;)

    But your T500 should do for now as well, it's just about how much it can handle, something to experiment with, that's the easy part adding or removing bubble sections. Please let us know about your findings.

    StillDragon Europe - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Europe & the surrounding area

  • edited January 2015

    @Admiraltoad: you are a celebrity in the other forum, we are honored to have you here!

    I think, the T500 could be too weak for 2 more plates, but you should try it, to be sure.

    If you are not happy with the result is an upgrade to the milkcan boiler the next step. We have only 3 left with reduced prices, perhaps one of them is waiting for you?

    StillDragon Europe - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Europe & the surrounding area

  • Hi FC only 30 litres like I say only hobby level.........for now Just had comments passed on from a 60 something old Scotsman and lifelong whisky fan who wouldn't believe it was produced in a wee house in the North of England Encouraging!

  • Toad, I would put some whiskey made in a small still up against the big boys anyday. Your boiler is about half the size of mine and I use a 5500w element. I use the full 5500 on heat up but probably half during the run. I am also going to buy a 4" Dash this Spring. Possibly with ProCaps.

  • on my 4" i run anywhere between 2400watts - 3300 watts

  • Welcome @admiraltoad, glad you are here.
    I have to agree that a 50L boiler, keg or milk can are both ideal, with a 5500 watt element with a power controller is the stuff.
    Allows for a rapid boil up and fine control during the run for any still of 4" or smaller.

    Things to add to your boiler want list:
    A refill port - for back to back runs.
    A drain port - its more than a luxury, it can save your back!
    An opening somewhere at least 4" (100mm) so you can get your hand or a long handle brush inside to clean it.
    At least one element port.

    Your 1800 watt T500 boiler will work for your new 4", your plates will definitely load if you have a dephlegmator or reflux condenser, but production will be quite slow. You'll be wishing for another 1kW of boiler power to really enjoy the 4" still.

    I'm currently using a T500 boiler, a SD DIY controller and a 4 plate Baby Dragon and loving it.

  • On my 100 litre keg I fitted 2 of 3kw elements. The intention was to use both on warm up and just 1 during the run. However, for redundancy I may change this to 2 of 6kw, but have 1 in use and 1 spare. Just in case an element fails mid run.

  • edited January 2015

    @admiraltoad, what Lloyd said:

    Things to add to your boiler want list:

    • A refill port - for back to back runs.
    • A drain port - its more than a luxury, it can save your back!
    • An opening somewhere at least 4" (100mm) so you can get your hand or a long handle brush inside to clean it.
    • At least one element port.

    That pretty much sums it up for our 50L Milk Can boiler configuration, with the addition of another top auxiliary port (usually used with a sight glass or thermowell end cap), the extra large lid for easy cleaning on the inside, two handles for easy moving around, and the optional stand, which is a perfect fit and not only adds to the optical effect. We only went for one element port, because that should really be enough for 50L, with the largest regular 1-phase element available for 220~240V being 5500W.

    That vessel would be the next logical step up from a T500. Our 50L Milk Can is not only very popular, but can also be sent as a regular postal parcel! :-bd

    StillDragon Europe - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Europe & the surrounding area

  • @SDeurope said: admiraltoad, what Lloyd said:

    That vessel would be the next logical step up from a T500. Our 50L Milk Can is not only very popular, but can also be sent as a regular postal parcel! :-bd

    Most people don't have 15-30amp power readily available, especially if renting. I had a single element milk can and added another weldless element to it. Total of 4800w split over the two, on my 4inch I use full power to heat up and then turn one element right down, probably use 3000w at most over my actual run.

    4800W tends to flood the standard bubble caps, though if I am stripping without reflux then full power is ok

  • The extra power is just for rapid heat up. A luxury more than anything really.

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • edited January 2015

    @Smaug said: The extra power is just for rapid heat up. A luxury more than anything really.

    Oh yeah fully agree, I can run with 2400W the whole time with one element and just adjust coolant flow but I can't get the same output speed or fully utilize my cooling

  • @clickeral even if you're renting, there's always a stove somewhere... 2 phase, high amps ;)

  • @Unsensibel said: clickeral even if you're renting, there's always a stove somewhere... 2 phase, high amps ;)

    Not when you run gas like a lot of Australian homes :p

  • @Clickeral said: Not when you run gas like a lot of Australian homes :p

    +1

    Pre 1970s was very common here too. A 60 amp service was quite common because most cooking was gas and only wealthy people had appliances that we now consider standard appointments in any house hold. Here our code demands that all appliances are on a dedicated circuit. A 12 circuit breaker panel became the norm and 20 circuits was a true luxury...now a days 20 circuits barely gets it done.....

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • The power supply in Australia is very much different to that in the States and Europe. Very few places have 15 amp circuits unless the previous owner had power hungry hobbies like welders or lathes. It's more common now in new homes to have power to the shed though.

    A 20 amp circuit allowing 4800 watts is about as high as i've ever seen in a shed. Our electric stoves are hard wired into the walls. We don't have high amp dryer circuits etc.

    The best most people can expect is two separate 10 amp power point circuits allowing a lead to be run from somewhere in the house out to where the still is plugged in to the second circuit. This will give 4800 watts.

    All this is pretty irrelevant to the current discussion though as the OP is in Europe. #:-S

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • That's how I run @punkin I just have to remember to turn the pool pump off as this will trip during a run I'm using a single 5500watt element with controller but I'm also constantly checking my leads aren't getting to hot

  • About the same here in China. My apartment is fairly "modern" but every place I can plug in is a max of 10 amps except for the aircon power points, I think they are 15 amp but are not convenient to use because they are located so far away from water or a drain.
    Cooking is done with a 2400 watt (max) induction stove. Washing machine, refrigerator but no clothes dryer or dishwasher or oven. Pretty typical arrangement for here.
    Our warehouse has 60 amps available to the stillin area, great for the 5" ProCap CD, but for stillin at home the Ace would be the better choice.

  • Sorry. Didn't know how spoiled I was. Got a 200 Amp panel sitting with about 2/3's of the circuits protected by a standby generator as the electricity isn't as stable. Had a power outage last summer and was the only one with Internet, cable and -most important- A/C :D

  • Bloody Hell Unsensibel... I want that!

  • I had 2 10amp powerpoints put in the eves and a15amp on the wall. Normally 6kw warmup but 8.4kw is possible. Wish i had somewhere to store an onion boiler.

  • Not online store an onion boiler but running a 120L wash. I "REALLY" want an onion boiler but I bring myself back to reality in saying that i'm happy with my 4 hour runs at the moment. I've got a 18gal keg I haven't gotten sockets welded to yet just sitting there screaming at me for my next step up. Jeez i'm lazy

  • @Unsensibel said: Sorry. Didn't know how spoiled I was. Got a 200 Amp panel sitting with about 2/3's of the circuits protected by a standby generator as the electricity isn't as stable. Had a power outage last summer and was the only one with Internet, cable and -most important- A/C :D

    Me too. Since Hurricanes Francis and Jeanne.

    That year we went for two weeks with out power. My wife had enough of that. Stand by generator and 600 gallons of propane came shortly thereafter.

    I pulled the (6) standard breakers that the system came with and installed waffers so we have 12 working circuits if needed. We simply manage the power usage.

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • Don't forget about Charlie; All three came within 20 miles of our house that year. One (forget which one) came right over our house. If you ever get a chance to go outdoors when the eye comes over, do it. Freaky calm. I have 2 15kw portable generators for my farm that I can use in a pinch for the house.

  • Yeah I went out when Wilma passed over us.

    That one there we all thought would be a cake walk....second half of that one had me really scared as I could hear my shingles filing off of the roof.

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • then @FloridaCracker , you live close ;-) for most of those storms, you could put an empty beer can on it's side in the middle of our street and it would not move... never lost power... three weeks after that trio of storms, on a bright sunny afternoon, we lost power for 4 hours... ever since, our power has been incredibly spotty... I think we used to be on the same feed as the fire station a block away and they moved us off of that feed....

  • Yes, I am about an hour from you. During the last of the three storms, I think it was Jean, we lost power for 6 days. During September, that is a BAD time to not have AC!

    I am going to come and see your distillery when I get a few free hours. Want to take a close look at your CD and Dash. Hopefully I will be able to make up my mind as to which one to buy after I see them. I would like to run Pro caps but am not sure that my rig will be enough to see the benefits. I just have a single 5500w element in my 15 gal converted keg. I usually run 12 gallons of wash at a time.

    What do you think? I really like the CD but will be running a lot of whiskey and probably won't need all of the plates for that. Thinking it would be a major pain to deal with a CD as I will be changing the setup quite often. For now I will start with a 4 plate setup.

    Which one would you lean toward if you could only have one?

  • If you see them side by side you'll choose the Cd no doubt, it's stunning. :D

    I'm not sure why people think it's more difficult to change the plates in the CD, it's actually easier.
    Spose i thought the same thing before using mine.

    You take the top of the still off by undoing the clamp under the reflux condensor (same with both units). I have mine on a rope to the roof so it swings just out of the way.

    Then in the 4" model you undo the 6 acorn nuts at the top and remove the top of the CD column.
    This gives you access to all the lenses and plates, remove as many plates as you like and put the lenses and gaskets back on, the top and the six nuts and the clamp and you are back in business.

    No different really to undoing and redoing the clamps on a Dash.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • I like the rope on the celing @punkin :D makes life a lot easier

  • I need to do that rope trick... I ran the 6-plate and couple days ago and could not get over 94%, I looked close at the plates, and the center three procaps are not aligned right, and one procap per plate has almost a straight shot into the downcomer of the plate below... arrrrghhhhh...

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