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Cooling Setup for Bubble Plate

So...I am getting around to configuring the cooling for my bubble plate, and I can't decide on how to run the condenser lines. I know there has been much discussion about this, and it is a matter of personal preference, but...

My debate at the moment is whether to run a line from the product condenser to the reflux condenser. My question is, is the reflux condenser more influenced by flow rate or temperature of the coolant? The only reason I can see at the moment for making the system more complicated by running a line (and valve) from the product condenser to reflux condenser, in addition to a straight feed from the reservoir, would be to inject heat into the reflux condenser coolant to avoid overcooling.

Wouldn't it be easier from a build as well as operating scenario to just have one control valve to the RC and adjust flow rate? Or am I missing a crucial bit of info?

Thanks

BoB

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Comments

  • Would be easier but you always have more control with independent flow controls on each condenser.

  • you could limit what @myles is describing by grossly over-sizing your product condenser, having water flow through it all the time, and using a three-way valve to send water to the dephleg or bypass it.... but like he says, you have more control with separate flows...

    For our production, I personally am going to try to have water chilled in a tote to 68 degrees to feed the PC, and a tote of warmer water, maybe 80-90 or 100 (we are in Florida) for the dephleg where using overly cool water is somewhat of a waste...

  • There is some detailed information in the operation manual for cooling connection. Crozdog recommends seperate lines and i would have to agree.

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  • I agree with what the guys are saying. I use separate lines. I tried the other configuration but with my pump size I had major flow problems with to much pressure build up and so on. I have the main line coming from the pump then a splitter sending water to both my deflag and the product condenser with the valve on the out side of my deflag. Any extra water flow is then diverted to the product condenser.

  • Ok, I guess I was a bit unclear, My plan is to run two separate lines for condenser input (from the same mains source). Seems this is an acceptable way to do it. What I was wondering about was that Ive seen what looks to be an additional line from the PC exit to the RC input as well. Maybe that was just the only RC feed and I overcomplicated it.

    Thanks all!

    BoB

  • if you use one pump, and two lines changing your product condenser flow will change your reflux pressure, and likely the flow, and therefore change your reflux... this will make it hard to get a consistent reflux and a quality product.

  • So... two separate lines fed by two separate sources?

  • why would you need a valve on your product condenser ??

  • I always have my valve on my reflux open more than my product condenser. Water tends to flow the path of least resistance.

    I only use a 300l water tank though.

  • interesting I have never had a valve on my product condenser and I am struggling to understand why you would need one on it. Please someone fill me in on what I am missing?. I can understand if you are not using a reservoir of some sort.

  • To reduce un needed consumption.

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • Yes mate, if running on mains. I usually supply the units with two valves for that reason.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • If you are running a recirc setup, running your product condenser wide open will waste your precious cooling capacity. No sense cooling the distillate any more than you need to.

  • So I guess my Davey transfer pump that can pump up to 225 lpm is over kill. Sorry for stealing your thread OP.

  • Can install a by pass to reduce head pressure if needed

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  • I have had no problems with the way I have it set up at the moment so I will just keep it this way. I have just switched back to the 5000lt water tank from the 1000lt cube so I got plenty of cooling water.

  • The other reason for flow control on the PC is if you wish to control your product temperature. Perhaps to match the calibration of a hydrometer. Also on a strip run many folks will deliberately take the low wines of at a higher temperature - knocked down from vapour, but not cooled.

  • No problem on the hijack. I love inciting discussions. If I had 5000l of cooling capacity I'd worry a lot less about the issue. I can pretty easily split the mains feed and run separate lines to each condenser from there with valves to control flow. Its easy enough to try it that was to begin and see where it gets me, and east enough to reconfigure down the road. I guess one of my questions got answered by not being addressed, and that is it seems unecessary to tap off of the PC to add heat to the RC. Temp control to the RC can be modified by flow control alone.

    Cheers

  • I did see 1 configuration that made sense for using warm coolant from the PC to supply the reflux condenser. This was when the PC fed a header tank that was used to feed the RC by gravity. Fixed head height supply and no pump for the RC. Overflow from the header tank went back into re-circulation to the coolant reservoir as normal.

    Its a nice configuration if you are really looking to reduce your energy costs but probably not necessary for many folks.

    The biggest reason for a warm supply to the RC is to REDUCE the sensitivity caused by using an oversized RC to obtain 100% reflux.

    Perhaps a possible scenario might be twin feed to the RC: 1. Cold supply at a preset flow rate to achieve 100% reflux at your selected power level for stabilisation, 2. and a variable flow supply (cold or warm) for use during the run.

    Not many folks actually need such a level of control though.

  • @bobtuse What size unit are you running? What size cooling tank are you using? What pump have you got to push the coolant with?

    I run 4" dash, have a 1000lt tank, submersible pump (with a bypass valve) then split the inlets to separate lines for the condensers and finally run separate outlets back into the tank.

    Never bother adjusting the product condenser flow, only adjust the reflux as required.

    I find it easy when re configuring for stripping as I can disconnect the tower bubble t section from the keg and sit it to one side with the lines still connected then just grab the section above the deflag and chuck that on the keg, move a clamp or two and ready to go. Also easy to put back and don't have to mess with lines or anything when its time to replace for spirit runs.

    Lines have enough length to move about and I do have valves everywhere if I need to disconnect for any reason, avoids draining water everywhere.

    I'm sure it would be different if I was not using a tank, but town supply.

    Fadge

  • @fadge said:

    Lines have enough length to move about and I do have valves everywhere if I need to disconnect for any reason, avoids draining water everywhere.

    My next project! I hate having to drain condensers to reconfigure the still @fadge but I'm getting good at it.

  • My setup is similar to Fadges only i run two pumps from two connected tanks, small bilge pump one for the product condensor and large sump pump one for the reflux condensor. Both drain back into the main resovoir of 500l, which is smaller than i'd like by half.

    I have an overhead rope loosely tied to the bend on the still, so i can swing any section i like over against the wall out of the way by undoing a clamp.

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  • Just picked up my cooling reservoirs, $35 each from place next to a local brewery, one had flavoring (smells like creme brulee ) the other propylene glycol, both food grade... raining like a cow pissing on a flat rock, or I would get a better pic.

    image

    20140916_161533.jpg
    600 x 800 - 29K
  • edited September 2014

    What size is the od of the cooling lines? Got it 12mm.

  • Pretty sure you will need two more Cotherman Distilling.

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  • I got 4 more on reserve when they get them

  • @CothermanDistilling said: I got 4 more on reserve when they get them

    Good call. You may not want to pump the exhaust water back to your aggregate, cool reserve.

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  • @Smaug said:Good call. You may not want to pump the exhaust water back to your aggregate, cool reserve.

    I'm confused I thought you were talking about a closed loop cooing system? My exhaust runs thru the condenser and back to the reserve.

    The day you quit learning is the day you start dying!

    "I am an incurable gadgeteer, and I like enormously to set up a theory and then track down the consequences" Murray Leinster youtube.com/watch?v=08e9k-c91E8

  • Closed loop is fine with enough reserve and an adequate heat exchanger.Without ample reserve and a ballzy chiller you will be pumping hot coolant back into a reservoir and heating your reserve up before it ever makes it to the still.

    I am implying that with two sets of tanks (800 to 1000 gallons of reserve capacity for each), one can alternate one's discharge into the second reserve and leave the first set of reserve tanks simply feeding the still with the coolest coolant possible for the duration of the run. Then on the next day's run, simply swap over and pump back over the opposite direction,,,if you see my meaning?

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  • With his chiller, Cotherman will have no problem with one tank. I am doing a submerged 3 ton evap coil (actually undersized for the chiller) with the identical chiller and its keeping up with cooling duties with no problem. Return is going on the top of the ibc and intake for my 1.5hp pool pump is at the bottom. This pump has two pool eye returns with a 1/2" supply line going to pc and dephleg. Doing double duty as a circulation and supply pump. A distillery local to me in Buffalo is only running a small 1hp aquarium chiller on 8+hr runs with no problem on a single ibc.

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