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Lallemand Distillers Yeasts

Hi all. I have had a few enquiries lately about stocking some distilling yeasts again.

Not quite sure whether to hold stock or do regular preorder purchases through the site here, stock is a hassle with constant orders and fridge space. so i'd like some feedback on a) How people want to purchase and b) what yeasts are the popular ones from the lists below as obviously if i do stock it will only be two or three varieties at a time.

I've also been offered a wide range of specialty distilling products including varied enzymes like high temp/acid stable amylases, glucanases that thin thick mashes, pectinase and a stack of fruit decomposing enzymes for hard fruit like apples and sweet potatoe etc. Multiple levels of carbon for specific purposes like flavor removal, colour removal, cogener and fusel removal.

There are specialty yeast nutrients, as well as a stack of fruit and other kinds of flavourings like Cointreau, coffee liqueur ect in bulk. Not so much the scotch, rum etc cordials (although there is some) but actual flavours like apple, kiwi fruit etc.

Lallemand Beverage Alcohol Yeast (PDF)

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Comments

  • I'm assuming our min order will be for a 500gm pack, the whiskey type would be on my list, but only one or two at a time. Perhaps a little nutrients to go along with them as well.

    Been using supermarket bought Lowens bakers yeast so far.

    I'd also use a just few flavor bases, mostly the ones that are too hard to do naturally or with uncommon ingredients. Currently order these online, around $6 ea plus $8 fixed postage.

    fadge

  • 500g of mw and ds for me please. Also interested in enzymes.

  • I'd be keen for the MW, RM and some high temp enzymes.

  • I'd be in for some DS, I get my enzymes from a place in NZ called Zymus, if you ask nicley they send a 50ml bottle for free - 50ml being enough for approx 100kg of rice conversion.

  • put me down for some of the whisky, burbon and the sugar one at the end...

  • I'm undecided between the DS and SR. Any suggestions for a dextrose Neutral wash?

    Also interested in using some enzyme(s)

  • edited April 2014

    @Drunkas said: enzymes +1

    DistilaMax RM and DistilaMax HT ty vm @punkin

  • edited April 2014

    @Philter said: I'm undecided between the DS and SR. Any suggestions for a dextrose Neutral wash?

    Also interested in using some enzyme(s)

    Philter i think from reading the description the DS is aimed at a vodka product where the SR is aimed at excluding the cogeners that may be favourable in a vodka and geared more towards neutral spirits production and rum. It's actually 46 EDV which has a very good following with the rum guys and faired well in some comparo's a few years back on Artisan if i recall.

    So it would depend on how you drink your vodka as to which one you'd choose. Deciding atm whether to put this order in this week or when i come back from holidays.

    Before we go too far it looks like these are going to be fairly pricey little buggers.

    The DS will come in cheapest at $118 inc GST followed by HT (high temp) at $124.

    Price then jumps to $148 for the SR (46 EDV) and the LS and $152 for the RM (493 EDV).

    The two whiskey yeasts are $142.

    No worries with anyone cancelling their commitment or changing the order at this stage.

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  • those prices for a kilo delivered?

    interested in the HT if we can get it to Fiji.

    Does it go by any other name?

  • If you guys know somewhere to get a better deal then i'm all ears. It's not something i want to stock. Just waiting to hear back about bulk pricing now though.

    I'll PM you Fiji, they may be able to supply you direct.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • Got a feeling the cost will certainly play into consideration for a lot of smaller hobbyist distillers like myself. Makes the rough bakers yeast look like an absolute bargain. Using 50-100gm per fermenter will be roughly $7-$14 each vs $1. Of course they are totally non comparable, but l'll be honest and will stay with bakers yeast for now.

    Fadge

  • edited April 2014

    with a pending 120lt boiler on the way I am going to have to sit on the fence this time round. But next time I think I will give it ago. Sorry for being a tyre kicker punkin

  • edited April 2014

    bakers yeast is said to be not very optimal for distilling, it is "trained" to make a lot of gas, not alcohol. Most of the profi distillers use distilling yeast (I know only one, who does not, but he is a special guy in many ways), although many of the teachers of the University of Hohenheim and our distilling school in Austria think, there is no significant difference, on what kind of distilling yeast you use. There can be differences of the taste, but that also depends much on what material you want to distill in the first place. But they all say, it is better (and cleaner) than simple baking yeast.I think, after all the efforts people make to produce good booze, the yeast is not the point to downgrade.

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  • @Sunshine said: bakers yeast is said to be not very optimal for distilling, it is "trained" to make a lot of gas, not alcohol. Most of the profi distillers use distilling yeast (I know only one, who does not, but he is a special guy in many ways), although many of the teachers of the University of Hohenheim and our distilling school in Austria think, there is no significant difference, on what kind of distilling yeast you use. There can be differences of the taste, but that also depends much on what material you want to distill in the first place. But they all say, it is better (and cleaner) than simple baking yeast.I think, after all the efforts people make to produce good booze, the yeast is not the point to downgrade.

    Agreed! I am not a pro but have noticed,and believe the right yeast for the right product!

    It is what you make it!

  • Looks like i'll be able to knock $20 off those prices with a bulk buy. But it's still going to be an expensive option.

    The recommended dosage in those spec sheets is certainly well and truly overkill in my experience. I'd go with 5 grams per twenty litres and make reusing the yeast a habit. 1 pack can be stretched for years by pitching a couple of cups of an active ferment on a new ferment, pitching on lee's, running ujsm style ferments or washing and storing some yeast from a ferment in the fridge.

    My neighbour and i have been using the same yeast from my original UJSM put down in 2007, if either of us has an infection or starts a new batch we just pass a 1 litre flask of active wash over the fence and pitch the Danstil C in the new one. He also shared with his mate.

    The original 2 tsp's of Danstil C i pitched in 2007 has produced thousands and thousands of litres of wash in three different sheds 8-}

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  • edited April 2014

    @punkin: stretching the yeast as you just described is not advisable. Over the time the yeast is mutating and there can be infections. A good distilling yeast is somehow a designer product, but it is a living organism and mutations can affect the quality.

    StillDragon Europe - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Europe & the surrounding area

  • How many grams are those prices for?

    I'm still keen considering I paid 130 for 500g of Ec1118 at my LHBS. Which has only just started to ferment after 7 weeks laying dormant. Or it could be the wild yeast population.. Not quite sure.

  • edited April 2014

    It's for 500 gm blocks mate.

    Sunshine i guess the proof is in the drinking, not in the distilling school. :)>-

    My experience tells me despite reading a lot of oft repeated rote to say the yeast mutates and that's a bad thing, that it is still excellent after 7 years going strong.

    Do you have experience that differs?

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  • I had better dump my 500L of mash, otherwise I'll grow three heads....

  • @Sunshine said: punkin: stretching the yeast as you just described is not advisable. Over the time the yeast is mutating and there can be infections. A good distilling yeast is somehow a designer product, but it is a living organism and mutations can affect the quality.

    What would you recomend at hobby level. Spend 150 clams on yeast that you tip down the drain after every use or just spend few clams on braed yeast that all ready make's good rum that all my whisky mates are drinking. I would love to use the same stuff that the pross use just at the cost and where I am at with the hobby its not worth it yet. I would think that I am probly not the only one that is in this boat. The only reson I wanted to try out the high end yeast was to see if I could increase my harts in a run. Other then that I am prity happy with what the bread yeast is doing for me. I would rather spemd that 150 on a gin head from SD then yeast.

    But hey rome was not built in a day and in time I will have all my SD stuff that I want. Thums up to punkin and the SD team and to this forum.

  • The big boys don't usually buy yeast - they propagate it in-house.
    From a protected "mother" they take a tiny sample and grow that into huge volumes of yeast.

    That kind of setup is beyond the scope of most of us and you can imagine the care that is taken in sanitation. The propagating equipment seems simple enough as it's basically just a series of increasingly bigger fermenters that have oxygen piped into them. Any 'beer' collected from this is a by-product as they are only interested in growing the yeast.

    I have no idea how they can insure that the mother is replenished after several hundred years without mutation.

    A local brewery that caters to expats (and has a booming business) has propagating equipment for his brewery. He starts with fresh, commercial yeast and grows that to a volume of about 80L of slurry. I don't think he does more than a generation or two before everything is cleaned out and started again. Can't find the pictures now but his setup is very nice as everything is done with pumps and piping and valves. That sure beats the bucket brigade method that I use.

    I saw on YouTube awhile back where a very serious homebrewer had hundreds of slants in his freezer. Farming (or is it ranching?) yeast is a science all its' own. Even the freezer is special because the defrost cycle can affect the yeast so if the freezer has defrost capability then the slants were stored in coolers (Igloos) inside the freezer.
    I figure slants in your freezer is the only real way to have a large bank of many viable yeast strains.
    I say this as I look at my packets of EC1118 that are now 2 years past the 'use by' date.

  • @Lloyd: that's exactly the point, as a homedistiller it is not sure, what the outcome of private breeding the yeast is. For me it would be simply not worth saving a bit of money, when I have a serious infection in the mash or the yeast is not working well. If a professional yeast is not starting to work immediately, it is dead. But I know, that dryfreezed yeast can be good, if stored well several years after past the 'use by' date.

    @punkin: Yes, we are currently only in distilling school, and we get information there of people, who are profi distillers and doing this for longer than probably everyone here. For me it is clear, that this knowledge has a point, I will not try to invent the wheel again. When we are starting something, we want to learn everything about it, fortunately we have schools for distilling in Austria, where the topic is taken very serious. Science is a good helper for better products.

    If everything went right for so many years for you, it is clear, that you are good in what your are doing and that you hygienic standards are very, very high. Many of the beginners could be disappointed, if things are not working out so well for them (stinking mash, fermentation not starting...) so I guess, using new distilling yeast could save them real time and money an give soon satisfaction. After all, you are selling yeast, I was only trying to explain, why people should spend serious money for it and why this is no luxury.

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  • Moonshine, i think you have the bull by the horns. There is no profit in me selling yeast it's supplementary to the local distillers that i offer things their local HBS is making things dear for them.

    As i said one spoon of yeast can last for years.

    I don't have any hygiene practices for distilling. I use a hose to fill the fermenter, i use unsanitised buckets to measure the grain and tip it into the fermenter etc. I don't even wash my hands. I believe i'm not unusual in my hygiene practices for distilling, although i practice much better hygiene for my allgrain beer mashes.

    Maybe other people who actually do some distilling will chip in here too?

    The massive yeast bed and the high ABV of the wash protects the ferment from infection, not sanitizing or hygiene practices.

    Maybe your professional friends need to be more careful as losing a wash could cost them a thousand bucks, but on a hobby level most people have a max of $40 invested in a big wash and lots of protection like ABV and yeast beds.

    I guess that's the difference tween school and the shed.

    Believe it or not we are fortunate enough to have universities in Australia (though it may seem backwards) that teach distilling as well.

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  • Im no diffrent to punkin when it comes to my spitit wash every thing gets a rinse with the hose and thats it. I dont even clean my fermenters any more. But the beer on the other hand I am very clean with. Every thing gets cleaned and sanitized befor use. Even my bottle caps.

  • It's the difference tween 5% abv and 12% abv.

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  • Dont get me rong @punkin I think sanitizing has its place but when your fermenting black strap and your empting a fermenter and filling in back up with more of the same as soon as it is emty then the risck is very low. If I was doing a all grain of some sort it would be a diffrent story. But in saying that may be this is what I need to do to increase my harts run. Who knows. This thread is fast becoming hijacked and thats probly some of my falt but what we are talking about is very interesting. These conversations is where we can lern alot from each other.

  • @punkin: Of course you have schools in Australia too, I guess very good ones, Australia is leading on topics like winery and stuff. Perhaps you should attend one too? New sides of the medal may be revealed to you...who knows?

    Our farmers who attend with us the school often ferment expensive and labour intensive fruits like rasberry, blueberry and so on. It is clear, when you loose your mash, it hurts. Most of them take part in competitions, where a mass of similar products are tested. Then there are the good ones and the price winning ones. That's why they don't want to take risks of any kind, winning gold medals is good for selling their booze after all. Curiously many of them started as homedistillers like people in this forum, some of them hit international awards with the first products they made. In the future I would be happy to arrange such a competition to proof how skilled our StillDragon users are.

    At the DRINCTEC fair in munich there was a whole hall only with yeast companies. I guess there is a big market for it, yeast is taken very seriously in the business.

    StillDragon Europe - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Europe & the surrounding area

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