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Advice on running a 3 plate 4" Dash

Did my first spirit run on the weekend.

Firstly the old T500 boiler coped admirably but I am looking to upgrade to a larger boiler soon. This run was about 27L at 29% ABV stripped neutral After full reflux to compress the heads I reduced flow to dephlegmator and upped power until I got a reasonable flow of product. Cut to hearts about a half liter in then collected 6.5L at around 85-80% ABV.

The bottom glass then started to fog so following advice I've seen decided to switch to tails so cut the dephlegmator flow and collected down to 10% equating to approx 5L @ 48% to run again at a later date.

Now the questions:

  • Was this about the right time to switch to tails? Or was I a bit early? I used to collect a lot more hearts on the old T500.
  • The baby dephlegmator outlet temperature was about 21°C is this about right?
  • Is 85% ABV output typical for this setup?
  • Thinking about running next time as a hybrid with short packed column under dephlegmator. Can I expect much improvement with this?

Must say I enjoyed running the rig but maybe expected a bit more ....

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Comments

  • It doesn't sound right to me.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • edited February 2015

    @admiraltoad I'd guess too much water flow, 21 c is very low, so perhaps too much reflux ?

    When I first started out it was with 40c or 50c outlet water temp, now when i'm running its around 60c temp or higher depending on the product and run I'm doing.

    Ball park 27lt @ 29% boiler should get you a bit over 8lt @ 85% give or take without cuts, so that looks fair.

    https://calc.StillDragon.org

    I often run 3 plates for whisky, my problem is getting the ABV lower than 85abv, fores/heads are at least 90abv.

    I collect tails only a few jars, then shut down. BUT when the bottom window just starts to fog, we still have hearts flowing from the output, we can suppress tails a little by adding more reflux/less speed or simply collect untill smell and taste lets you know when to stop, use smaller jars at this end of the run. Tails are smelly, they junk and darken up the plates if you don't wash down after a run. Time wise I don't think trying to extract all from the boiler down to 10% is worth it, my cut off is 40% at the most, more like 50%. Stripping is down to 20% or 30%.

    If you want a higher abv then a packed section above the plates works well, looking at a 500mm packed with s/s scrubbers should get you near the 95% with correct water flow.

    Fadge

  • Thanks for the advice wasn't sure how much reflux to use On neutrals,with a packed column do you think it would be good enough to use without carbon filtering?i have an essencia but was hoping to cut out this part of the process

  • edited February 2015

    @fadge said: Tails are smelly, they junk and darken up the plates if you don't wash down after a run. Time wise I don't think trying to extract all from the boiler down to 10% is worth it, my cut off is 40% at the most, more like 50%. Stripping is down to 20% or 30%.

    I agree, no deep tails anymore!

  • What about using tails in a later all tails all heads run ?

  • You may need 2 runs to get clean neutral with 3 plates and a packed section. As for carbon filtering, I tried once and compared side by side, in my opinion it was not worth it, but I know others that always "polish" and finish off with a filter and there happy as well. Try and see I reckon.

    I don't drink neutral, but use it for a few mixers, girlie drinks and coffee.

    fadge

  • I now only use carbon on the hearts cut from a feints run as I find it is still a bit smelly & harsh.

    The heart from a TPW wash is great off a 4 plate dash with a 500mm scrubbie packed extension.

  • I used to mostly run a pot still in 1 form or another. In my opinion my dash will be treated sort of in the same way.

    My regime was to take the hearts on the pot still and I can see myself doing the same on the dash. However I generated a lot of feints. Some of these were used to blend into boiler charges on subsequent runs, but I didn't do all feints runs on my primary still.

    I had a dedicated packed column and the only thing it was used for was cleaning up feints to salveage as close to neutral as I could get as a feedstock for infused products. I didn't drink the neutral directly as product because I just don't like it.

    If you are going to re-use feints, expecially if they are already quite highly processed, they can be quite stinky. Its the one instance where I could justify recommending an SPP column, but it would be for a specific use only.

    But that is just my opinion.

  • Great insight @myles I could use some neutral for fruit infusions

  • I've collected a lot of Rum fients and can't seem to figure out what to do with them. Being Rum would you strip for neutral ?

  • white rum at 95%+ is a wonderful drink.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • I generally keep 1 gallon of rum oils separate for re use, but all the other feints just get mixed. With stripping out all the flavour for neutral it doesn't really matter what the source was.

    I treat vodka with more care, but mine is not neutral. I keep a slight residual flavour in it.

  • edited February 2015

    @Myles said: I generally keep 1 gallon of rum oils separate for re use, but all the other feints just get mixed. With stripping out all the flavour for neutral it doesn't really matter what the source was.

    I have found that even with azeotrope neutral the source does make a difference in flavor. Even 3X neutral from a reflux column. That's why I switched from WPOSW to a modified UJSM as the base wash for my neutral.

    Neutral from mead and wine ferments gone bad have a definite twang to their flavor that won't go away even at 3X. Trying to get the hops out of distilled hopped beer neutral is they same way.

    I think it is because there are volatiles that have the same vapor pressure as ethanol, so no matter how many times you run it, they come over in the hearts.

    I'm more like I am now than I was before.

  • Use rum feints and you'll get 95+% rum that's for sure.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • @Kapea with the volatilizes in wine and hops, do you think diluting the abv of the wash as mentioned in the heads compression thread might make them easier to remove? What abv are you running when doing your 3x column runs and what are the specs of your column? Just curious really, and that other thread has got my mind going...

  • @Kapea you may be right. I mostly ferment fruit and rum and have probably been lucky. I don't drink the neutral unless it has other flavours in it so may not have noticed.

  • edited February 2015

    My beer, wine or mead washes are less than 14%. UJSM wash around 10-12%. Low wines and third runs on azeotrope I dilute down to 35% or so.

    My column is a 2" copper inline VM column with 48" of stainless steel pot scrubber packing. The reflux condenser is a double wound coil of 1/4" OD copper tubing. The product condenser is a copper liebig 3/4" shell over 1/2" tube, 24" long. The column mounts by triclamp to a SD torpedo that mounts by triclamp to a propane fired half barrel (15.5 gallon/58.6L) sanke keg boiler.

    I'm more like I am now than I was before.

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