Brewing Beer for Whiskey

Jung

Ok, so I've been a brewer for a few years (near 10) and doing a touch of distilling for almost 3 years... problem is that besides 1 failed experiement with flaked maize (stuck mash) a few years ago, I've kept the two pretty separate - TPW for distilling except for a few batches of bad beer that I stripped recently (haven't done a spirit run yet).

Well, I've just finished my new all grain brewing setup in my basement, just a few feet from my still setup. Previously, brewing was done at my buddies place about 6 miles away. Now we have 2 full all grain setups, so mine will be more for distilling use.

The setup is an all electric HERMS using keggles, nothing too out of the ordinary for 3 vessel brewing (I'll do a separate write up on the brew space and gear).

To start, I'm going to do the first mash on Friday as part of the holiday weekend, and I'm thinking just a straight 2 row malted barley mash. Basically unhopped beer. Having never brewed beer just for distilling, do you guys mess with specialty grains or do you stick with just 2 row pale ale malt? I can brew beer for specific mouthfeel, color, flavor, etc... but is the extra effort for things like that needed for a whiskey?

I usually us a basic US-05 by Safale for yeast, should I stick with that or would something like an EC-118 be better to get a lower FG?

Here's my thoughts on first distilling brews:

• Straight Barley
• Straight Rye
• Straight Wheat
• Those will help me figure out the mashing techniques needed.
• And then move from their to bourbon blends.

I know experimentation will help sort these things out, but my brew time will be limited for a while (2 little ones at home), so taking some advise to get me a step or two ahead seams like a good idea and I know the general progression of a limited time hobby:

• Experiment # 1 - eh,\
• Experiment # 2 - ok
• Experiment # 3 - getting there
• Experiment # 4 - good enough, let's get some aging.

If I can get closer to great on the first try, I'll be less likely to settle with a product below what I should be able to make if I had endless time to play. Fast forward 20 years and I'll have more time, but I'd rather not wait that long.

grim

Pick up a copy of Bell's Alt Whiskeys.

You are clearly advanced enough to skip past the basics. If you can brew a drinkable beer you have a significant step up on anyone who is starting from scratch with distilling. You understand all the complex bits already. In fact, you'll probably need to unlearn some of the things that have been driven into your brain from the brewing side. The fact of the matter is, a good amount of what you do in brewing simply doesn't carry over in the distillate. In addition, flavor profiles of grains are different in the distillate as well. Recipe development is half the fun. Alt Whiskeys is a good inrto to crazy grain bills and process.

You already hit on what brewers have the most problem with, the cereal mash associated with corn, and the corresponding mess. As long as you don't try to lauter corn mash in your AG rig, you'll be fine. Second headache you'll have is with rye or any other adjunct with high glucans. As long as you keep your adjuncts low, you'll be able to manage without going out of your way (rice hulls, sebflo-tl, etc).

It'll be like putting the training wheels back on, but sure, go for a 2-row. You'll have no problems with small volumes of adjunct like a dash of rye or wheat.

In terms of yeast, whatever you like for beer, use for whiskey. I love ale yeasts, love 'em. I almost categorically stay away from any "distilling" yeast.

Mash like beer, but skip the multi-step mashing (if you do that), and don't bother with the boil (you don't need to denature your enzymes).

Jung

@grim - Thanks for the tip on the book, I'll check that out.

Agreed that recipe development is fun, but when aging is involved on limited batches, I feel like getting ahead of the curve would be beneficial to keep myself moving in the right direction without losing interest due to failure.

So no lautering? I've never fermented on the grain, seams like it would be a pain and a mess compared to the clear beer method I'm used to. With enough malted barley and rice hulls mixed in, think it would be doable after the enzymes do their magic?

I've never messed with multi-step mashing, though my new rig can easily do it. No real plans to at this point...

And last point... no boiling?! Really? I was thinking I'd at least need to bring it to a boil as a sanitizing step, but if not, that'll make brewing for whisky stupid simple and quick. If it's just a time saver, I'm not worried, as I can usually bring the wort to a boil by the time I'm finished sparging (batch sparge). I was thinking just 10 minutes or so would be plenty.

Without boiling, I'd be able to cool to ferment temps in seconds with my Therminator, as is it's only about 6-8 minutes to cool wort to 68 degrees (F) for a ~10 gallon batch.

punkin

Avoid corn and high levels of Rye and you can lauter as usual. You can either use the sparge water in the ferment or save the sparge water (boiled and cubed no chill) to use as strike water for your next batch giving you a head start on the sugarz.

The no boiling is in order not to denature the enzymes as you want as complete a fermentation as possible and if you can get it to finish at 1003, you get more yield that at 1013.

Dynauld

@Jung For at home, I made a Bourbon process that take some of my beer brewing and some of our processes at the distillery. But I'll let you know now, it is not ideal for a HERMS or RIM system.

I use my boil kettle from my brewing system, I put my Mash Tun false bottom into the boil kettle. I bring my (1.5qt/lbs of cracked corn / not flaked corn) water to a boil. Heat off, Mashed in the Corn. Stir for 40-60 minutes. Add (roughly 1.5qt/lbs of grain) of warmed water ( to whatever you need to bring it down to 152-154F. Use a Mash Calculator like this) and then mash in your malted grains. Rest 60 to 90 minutes. Fly Sparge as usual using the remaining volume needed (accounting for grain absorption, equipment etc ) but a bit cooler then normal so that the you don't stop the enzyme process (so less than 162, I like 148F). No boil for the reasons @punkin says, Cool to around 90F and pitch yeast at about 50Billion cells per gallon.

I have started using adding 5qts of left overs from my stripping runs to pre-heat my strike water and to create a bit of a classic sour mash process so I can avoid adding acid to the AG mash for pH adjustments as well.

I'd suggest just to put on your homebrewer's hat and just have fun with it. ;)

Malted

There are a few issues others have not pointed to yet.

100% rye or 100% wheat will require a lot of rice hulls or else you will get a stuck mash. 100% rye is a nightmare!

You'd be better to include a proportion of malt with high diastatic power, or add some powdered enzymes.

Mash low, you want a highly fermentable wort.

My opinion is that good wash in equals good product out. Yeast pitching rates & handling, sanitisation, brewing conditions etc make a good beer. Good beer = good wash. I would say pitch your US05 into a oxygenated wort at the correct temp with the right pitching rate and brewed at the correct temperature range so that you don't stress the yeast. Then pitch the wine yeast at it to lower the gravity further. IMO you will get better wash flavours from the US05 to do the bulk of the ferment and let the wine yeast finish where the US05 left off.

I made a 50% pale ale malt, 45% medium peated barley and 5% Melanoiden malt as a whiskey wash. I am not sure if the Melanoiden contributed much but I would totally push you towards using some peated barley. I have heard of folks using 85% peated barley IIRC.

IMO go a mash of barley and peated barley, decide for yourself what proportions to use. When mashing the medium peated barley I would describe it as smelling like bacon on hot bitumen (it also leaves a residue in the mash tun and the kettle), however it produces a mind boggling good product.

punkin

Which brand and grade of peated did you use @Malted ? I have heard varying reports of the worth of peated barleys and that we have a dearth of choice here as most of the grades are not imported.

Did the up and coming maltser from Tazzy that was on ahb ever go into the peated stuff? That may be a good avenue for @TheMechWarrior to source his?

crozdog

Gladfields in NZ are making a Manuka smoked malt. It tasted great when I tried it at ANHC. might buy some 1 day for a wash..

TheMechWarrior

We have our own peat fields down here in Tas, I expect I'll be smoking some in the near future.

Malted

@punkin sorry mate, I am not on this forum all that often.

Bairds, Medium Peated.

Some folks like peated whisky, some don't. Folks making their own are going to be just as divided as those drinking commercial stuff. Those that do like peated barley might disagree on the appropriate proportions to use, then as you allude to, other variables include maltster and peatiness variations. It is the classic how long is a piece of string argument.

Lloyd

Did peated whiskey for many years, then not peated for even more years.
I'll stick to not peated.

No belly problems or anal bleeding since. YMMV

TheMechWarrior

lolz I'll keep those side affects in mind the next time I have me some peated.

dad

Peated Whiskey caused the anal bleeding? Was this after a Black Out Night?

Jasper

@dad said: Peated Whiskey caused the anal bleeding? Was this after a Black Out Night?

Sounds like more of a "brown out" kind of night

dad

Uhhhhh........

My wife thinks too much gin makes her...sore...

Myles

Concentrated peat extract as an additve after distillation untill you work out how much you likr?