Move from a Reflux still to a SD bubblecap still

craftspirits

Greetings all you knowledgeable members of this forum. First time here for me and a newcomer to to distilling. I have a handmade reflux still packed with copper mesh and a Newton/Stone condenser. I'm into making gin, so my gin basket(s), are 2 sections of copper pipe above the reflux column. All good but I want a SD. Loved the post from NoMo "Talk me out of a Bubble Cap".

Here are my questions

1. Please help me understand why a SD bubblecap column has 2 condensers, one on top of the column and one after the bend vs my system of only one condenser.
2. To make gin (in smallish quantities at this stage) how many plates on my SD will I need, using the smallest boiler available. I assume 4inch will be the route for me? Be very interested to meet anyone making gin too...
3. After stripping, can I take just one run, to run the wash through the gin head with botanicals. What is the likely %ABV I will get from the SD after this run

Thanking you in advance

Lloyd

Hi @craftspirits and welcome!
Whew, so much ground to cover with that few questions.

1. You must be using liquid management if its a reflux still without a product condenser.
   A bubble plate column is a cooling management setup where you regulate the amount of reflux with a dephlegmator (partial condenser) and what goes through that and past the 180 bend will need to cooled as its going to be hot vapors.
2. Gin is usually made from neutral spirits (high quality, almost flavorless vodka) in the boiler and those clean vapors are used to infuse said vapors with your botanicals - so the trick is to get the neutral first.
   You can produce a neutral with ANY still but not usually in one pass. A plated still or packed column still may take more than one distillation to get you there. A simple pot still can do it but you'd need to run the spirit through many times.
3. After the stripping run you will meed to make a spirit run to get to the clean neutral and with less than about 20 plates you may need to make more than one run on the same spirit to get to the neutral flavor(lessness) that you want before subjecting your precious botanicals to the vapors.

The ABV% is directly related to the boiler charge ABV% and the setup and opertaion of the still. If neutral is in the boiler then there is little reason to have anything other than a simple pot still (a plated or packed column will do, with the plates or packing removed) since you no longer need to remove flavors from the boiler charge.
One or two plates will help to hold the high ABV across the botanical run if that's your goal or no plates if a varying AVB through your veggies is desirable.

I'm sure others here with much more knowledge of gin will chime in.

Clickeral

Hey Craft spirits

I run a 50L milk can (now with 2 elements) and a 4inch Aussie take away still (4 plates)

For what your wanting to do I would recommend something similar however I would add

An extra plate and a 510mm packed section

I would run a TPW or Weetbix/Allbran vodka wash of about 20-40L in a single pass over a 5 plate setup and 510mm packed section (packing would either be Copper or stainless (My personal preference))

This should give you a reasonably clean vodka/neutral if you run it slow, I tend to double distill all my vodka and neutral but again that's my taste.

Then you can put the clean product into your boiler and water down to at least 40% and run that with 3-4plates and your gin head

So to answer your question the following would suit you well

4" bubbler with 5 plates and a 510mm packed section, you would also need a gin head/basket 50L boiler (milk can or keg)

Just my $0.02

Clickeral

It would sit above the 5 plates and below the deflag :)

Myles

Hope you dont mind me interjecting here but I am a fan of the dedicated gin still.

Produce your clean neutral on any still you like. It is just a feed stock for the gin. Then charge your gin still boiler. You make no cuts on the gin run so your boiler charge needs to be good quality and clean. Charge at up to 40% ABV.

If you are using an INDIRECTLY heated boiler you can go to 60%. Do NOT do this without the right boiler for the job.

All you need is a pot still with a basket. Either put your botanicals in the boiler or in the basket - it depends what method you use. Simple vapour path to your product condenser.

IMO you need a dedicated condenser and if you put botanicals in the boiler you might wish to use a dedicated boiler also.

Depends how much you wish to make, but this is one situation where a smaller boiler is nice to have.

I like Jenever also, but it is not everyones preference.

Smaug

On top of thr boiler or there about.

All of your rectifying (including cuts) would have been completed by this point.

No need to waste your botanical goodness on heads or tails.

Myles

@Smaug said: I would even dilute the boiler charge down so that your aggregate abv collected is within barrel strength range.

This is a very valid point. There are many reasons for a sub 30% boiler charge on a pot still and with flavour in mind, lack of dilution is a good one.

punkin

Welcome mate. I'll have a go at simplifying it for you.

1) the reflux condensor is used to create liquid reflux to go back and feed the plates, thereby continually enriching the mix on each plate. All reflux stills have one on one way or another. This, in a way controls the abv in that if you keep the takeoff balanced with the power input the still remains stacked at the optimum abv for each plate to retain maximum abv. If you were to take more vapour off than the boiler is producing to maintain that equilibrium then the abv will drop and the quality of the spirit will fall. The product condensor is there to condense the vapours that you are taking off.

2) To make Gin, as the others have said, you need to start with neutral spirits as the most efficient way. The smallest setup to do it would be the new Ace of Hearts on a store bought 25l boiler with a carter head to go on there. The most practical small setup for most people with a reasonable amount of room and an abiding thirst like most of us here have is the 50l boiler (milk can or keg) and 4" Dash or Crystal Dragon. Clickeral has given you some good advice that 4-6 plates with a reflux extension (if your ceiling height allows) will give you some very good vodka/neutral on a single pass run and better again on a two pass run making cuts on both passes. A second/third pass is then used to make the gin. There is, as Lloyd said, no need to have the plates and reflux condensor etc in there and your reflux extension makes a very good riser to get the basket off the boiler (the beauty of modular lego style distilling). The carter head is designed purposely so that you need not worry about botanicals scenting your boiler or any parts before they enter and so that the actual juice from the botanicals does not make it into your condensor or your product making clean up as simple as a good wash of the parts after the gin basket in the dishwasher or a quick soak in a weak citric acid or pbw (sodium percarbonate/napiwash) solution.

3) It's not advisable to make cuts on the spirit run, although it is possible as i understand it. With the right setup though, as explained above, you can do a two run process if you were to make cuts on the first run. It really just depends on your tastes, after all in the hobby world you are making it solely based on what you like. If you prefer a cleaner spirit, then a third run for the gin only may be the best bet, if you think commercial style mid shelf vodkas are clean enough it may be you can do it in two runs.

A separate boiler mat be nice, but in the real world at the hobby level is not needed unless you have the room and the funds to spare, in which case a 25-30l store bought boiler may suit you and the GB4 down to the ground.

Sunshine

With the 4" dash or Crystal Dragon the door is open to the next level. It works as well with a 50l milkcan as with a 150l boiler or bigger - one might consider this... :D

craftspirits

Thanks @Lloyd for your reply. Re question 1, so I assume you control the % ABV that goes past the 108 bend totally from the quantity and temperature of the coolant in the dephlegmator. Re question 3, if I were to do 2 spirit runs to get to neutral, how many plates would I need? And 3? So where my real question is heading, is what is an optimal bubble plate column for the smallest boiler which I assume is 50 litres, for me to make gin.

craftspirits

Wish I had discovered this forum a long time ago. Thanks @Clickeral, where does the packed section sit? Below or above the 5 plates?

craftspirits

Thanks @Myles. Assuming one had good neutral spirits and if one were to use a SD with gin basket, would one use all the plates as well for the botanical run, or does the gin basket now sit almost on top of the boiler?

Smaug

I would even dilute the boiler charge down so that your aggregate abv collected is within barrel strength range.

As an aside you gotta try some barrel aged gin. So delightful.

craftspirits

Thank you @Sunshine , @punkin , @Myles and @Smaug for your collective input. I have a pretty good idea now.