Sick of Sugar and moving to AG and BIAB

Clickeral

So seems the crankenstein 3d and 3e are no good for corn and the manufacturer has pointed me to the 220C

@punkin you have the millmaster mini right? How does it handle corn?

I can get the mm mini for 239aud delivered next week or I can wait 2 weeks for the crankenstein and pay about 260aud

Im thinking the mm now

punkin

I have some cracked corn here and i'll put it through today for you.

grim

I use the 220C, I've used it to mill down already cracked corn. I'll try whole kernel as soon as I get the rest of the mill put together, we're currently just finalizing the hopper. I never attempted to put whole corn through since I didn't think I had enough power for it. I've now got 1 hp with a 5:1 gear reduction - 350rpm.

The issue has more to do with how wide you can set the gap. The 220C can go .15 gap, that's wide for a brew mill. Even the real monster 328C can't open it's maw to .15. The second issue is roller size, need to be big for those kernels to not just skitter around. the 220c is 2", vs the 3d and e which are both only 1.5".

I suspect whole corn will need to be two pass. One wide open for an initial crack, than a second pass through to take it down to desired size.

If you can wait a week or two, I'll post a video of how it handles whole corn.

Clickeral

@grim and @punkin

cheers for the help guys, id be running cracked corn at this stage and duel pass through is fine

Ill be ordering next week so no rush

punkin

Pics below. The MM min chewed through it with no problem at all. I first widened the gap for the first pass, but i tried it after that back at a fine gap and it worked just fine for first pass too. It's so easy to widen the gap on this mill that you would probably do it just because it's a tad faster, but if you liked to keep your barley gap you certainly could.

Corn from the bag;

Run through once, the large pieces you see are crushed, they are just compressed and break up with your fingers. This is run through once on fine setting, i imagine the clumps would break up while stirring and if you were happy with coarse semolina type grind you'd go no further;

This is second pass, i tried a third pass but it just went straight through and made no impact. This is a fine semolina style grainy powder;

Same product closer image. Doesn't really do justice to the fines here;

Having the second roller geardriven makes a big difference IMO.

Clickeral

@punkin thats perfect for what I need guessing the MM is the go :) cheers for your help :D

Just need to buy one now on payday (Tuesday) and have it sometime next week

Might have to have a crack at an AG bourbon (need to free up my mashing pot, unless I use the boiler)

punkin

You are welcome mate. Glad to be able to help. The unit didn't sound like it was labouring or anything, there was a little free spinning now and then while it grabbed the full kernels when it was adjusted down fine, so you may make life for the mill a little easier and save a little time by adjusting it out for the first pass. The MM is so easy to adjust any way that it only takes a couple seconds. I do it by sight.

The Crank used to require two spanners, undo 2 bolts, adjust two others and then tighten the 4 back up. The crank also used to often have trouble getting started on hard grains and even crystal. I'd have to start the mill, then add some base malt before i could add wheat or specialty grains other wise it would just free spin.

Clickeral

Seems I can't make a decent ginger beer, just racked it off into another fermenter (secondary) and had a taste.

God its awful hydrometer says its at 990 (SG1045) all I can taste is the burn of sugar based alcohol there is no body to it at all :(

Think I should have chucked some maltodextin in or something, think its a fail and will be run though the still once I order my new packed section

@punkin heads up once I check my budget i'll probaby order a packed section :) might even go for a 5th plate (SGK lense) and a few spare lenses.

Will send you an email for pricing Tuesday after I pay bills order my Mill and buy 50kg of grain hahahaha

I have 1 fermenter empty atm :( I could do a whisky sugarhead/caramalt wash but I cbf

I would have 2 free if I chucked the Crappy Ginger beer into 2L bottles

Think I'll have to do some AG on friday night or saturday :)

Clickeral

That moment when you realize you only have enough corn for 4 30L ferments of bourbon :s

Just started 5 sour corn starters, (400ml each) should give me enough for the 1st gen

Bourbon Grain bill will be 70% corn 4.5kg 20% Barley (Trad ale) 1.5kg 10% wheat (malted) 0.5kg

Clickeral

Got 50Kg of Malt being shipped out today ETA of Friday 25kg of JW Trad Ale and 25kg of JW Pilsner

My new mill got shipped today and will arrive tomorrow

Need to modify the desk for the mill and get something to use as a grain hopper (think a cheap square plastic bin tbh)

And another bin underneath to catch the grain

Wondering how the Pilsner will go for a whisky wort

Picking up all my speciality malt on the 1st (40kg worth) 10kg of rye 10kg of wheat (enough for a rye whisky and an all grain wheat vodka :) )

jonno

Do you plan on controlling the ferment with all this all Grain?

Clickeral

@jonno said: Do you plan on controlling the ferment with all this all Grain?

For beer yes, for Bourbon, Vodka and Whisky at this stage no

However I will be using US05 for my Whisky and Bourbon

The vodka will probably be bread yeast

Temp control isn't as necessary for spirit washes as beer from what I have found so far

Clickeral

Mill arrived will post pics once I get home tonight, need to mount it etc so will see how we go :)

Need to work out what to do for a hopper

crozdog

@clickeral, i made mine out of some 3 ply & an old election corflute banners of johnny howard - It's the most he has ever done for me!!! haha

cut out 4 rectangles & put some slots into em & your hopper disassembles & packs flat when not in use.

here are the plans - adjust the mill fitting to suit & make it as big as you want / need: AussieHomeBrewer Account needed

As you can see - its not complex & only a few basic tools are needed to make it.

I recommend making a trial unit using cardboard first. you can also use ply, MDF or perspex.

crozdog

here are some pics of the concept

The plans are attached as PDF here.

Clickeral

So Toll's website claim my Grain has been delivered but no one on site has seen it :s

Clickeral

Currently cooling down 30L of wort made from 6.5Kg of Pilsner Malt SG1024 and 1036 after temp correction.

Was aiming for an SG of 1050 so my efficiency isn't the best but I should still hit about 6%

Think its due to my mill settings, and losing temp from my boiler

Need to buy a better motor as the drill seems to struggle a bit, also need to rethink my hopper as its not working super well atm.

Temp started at 70C forgot to do a temp check once I added the grain, temp was about 58C when I drained the wort so not the greatest.

Probably should have used my Chilly bin but still need to get a drain valve

Decided to reuse the grain and see if I can get another 20L of wort out of it :)

I am making a single malt whisky encase anyone is wondering, just something simple to start

May up the grain bill next time if I can't get my efficiency up

Clickeral

2nd use of the grain got me 20L with a gravity of 1017 so have put that into a cube and will use that next time with another 15L of water to seep the next batch :)

Letting my wort cool down in my fermenter overnight and will pitch yeast tomorrow morning

Using US-05 so hopefully it's ready to run in the still next weekend

6-8% is about the right abv for whisky wort so fingers crossed I get lots of flavor coming through.

It will get one pass through the bubbler

jonno

I'm trying to find a fridge at the moment big enough to hold a 60l fermenter before I make the move to all grain.

Definitely interested in seeing what you think of the all grain compared to sugar based wash

Clickeral

@jonno said: I'm trying to find a fridge at the moment big enough to hold a 60l fermenter before I make the move to all grain.

Definitely interested in seeing what you think of the all grain compared to sugar based wash

Yeild won't be as good but flavor should be better, I am currently doing 30L batches and experimenting with a few different ways to do it.

I am not doing temp controlled but my brew room doesn't get to hot and unless I have a heater belt on the fermenters don't get much over 18-20C anyway

Also working with 30L batches, from what I have read is whisky distillery's use the grain 3times and combine the final wort.

I think 1-2 times is enough for home use however.

Are you looking at AG beer or going for whisky bourbon etc???

BIAB is pretty easy and if you aren't doing beer you can skip the 60Min boil

I have been doing 90Min's for my extraction period

Fingers crossed this ferments down to 990

punkin

Brew mate says 52% efficiency. should be up over 70. I suspect a decent mash tun will help there. Aim for a temperature of 64 or 65C and hold it. A simple single sparge should account for all the available sugar and you won't have to worry about reusing the grain or saving sparge water. This is what it looks like if you were to go for a 72% efficiency which is very acheivable with an esky mash tun. I forgot to adjust the sparge temp in the program as you don't want a mash out sparge, you want the enzymes to keep working so adjust the desried sparge temp to 65C when you do it and it will give the correct water temperature.

Clickeral

Going to give a Dr sumortos Golden Ale tonight don't have any amerillo so going to sub in chinook and cascade.

Also need to do a started for a jar or two of the US05 I washed, had to pitch two jars worth into the pilsner work I made the other day (just started bubbling this morning)

Got an all mollasses rum going right now, 6L mollasses, 3L backseat, pinch of dap all on top of the last yeast cake and topped up to 26L

Its going off :)

cunnyfunt

Check your mash pH too. Make sure youre in the ball park. If I use water out of the tap without adjusting pH, my mash ends up around out 8...

Clickeral

So I may have killed my drill (smoke comes out) I managed to get through 4.7kg of grain so my golden ale is now a burnt drill bastard

23L ish

3.5kg trad ale malt 1.2kg munich

The wheat killed it :(

Was going for 30L but ohwell

Clickeral

Notes to add,

Work out a better way to measure out hot water Read Brew mate instructions better Make sure water is hot enough before adding to grain Buy a motor capable of running the mill Work out the best crush If something goes wrong halfway through stop and work out how to proceed

You still have a jar of caramalt and 2kg of dextrose if you need it :p

Milk cans are shit for Biab but ok for Heating water and boiling wort (needs more power :S ) Might need to look into get some form of insulation to wrap around it

Not sure what the SG will be for this batch but it was OG of 1033 (after temp correction) before boil

I am currently boiling atm so fingers crossed I can get it about where I want it

So seems I get 52% efficiency consistently at least, but I know how to improve it so all a learning curve with new equipment and process

I was getting about 75-76% efficiency with the big W pot and triple batches but it took 6 HOURS

Think I may ferment on the grain for this beer :)

As long as I get enough for a 19L keg and a few bottles of beer I'll be ok

Clickeral

Hmm ended up with 25L of wort after the boil is now no chilling in my fermenter

Chucked my Biab with the spent grain in might get a few more points out of it

With temp correction I am looking at 59% efficiency and an actual OG of 1035 :s

So will get about 3.44% so will be my first light beer haha, ummm will take a gravity reading tomorrow and decide if I chuck some dextrose in or not

It might be ok, either this beer will be good or it wont be (in which case guess i'll be making some hopped whisky :p)

Ph of the tap water is about 7.6-7.9 need to look into adjusting it for better conversion

Next AG brew won't be till next month now as I need to sort a motor (prob the one punkin uses :p) and do some mods to my gear

I have lots of wash to run as neutral and 50L of rum wash to get finished so something to do

Still need to wait on the batch to ferment anyway as its got my BIAB in it (unless I build a manifold)

I am not having a good brew month sigh

grim

I'm no brewer, but the pH of your mash shortly after mash-in is going to have a significant impact on amylase productivity. This is especially the case if your water has significant buffering capacity. The malt may not provide enough acidificiation to bring your mash down to the ideal pH ranges for the enzymes. You should be hitting way over 59% efficiency with BIAB, low 70s for sure. _ You can certainly acidify your source water, but it's going to take some trial and error to understand where your mash pH will fall after mash in. I've seen situations with source water of very poor buffering capacity (with little additional buffer added) taken down to low 5s, and then after mash-in, the pH went far too acidic as a result. I'd say check your pH shortly after mash-in and adjust as necessary, you'll get a feel for where your source water needs to be to hit the right pH after mash-in.

Again, I'm not a brewer, so adding lactic acid to acidify the mash isn't a problem for me. I'm more concerned about hitting the proper pH ranges. But depending on your beer style, it may be a problem for you.

For example, when I do an 100% corn, I'll do a step mash based on pH and temp. I'll run 5.8 with HT Alpha for a fixed, period, then lower the temp and acidify the mash down to 5.2 before adding Gluco.

Anyway, I'm rambing, yeah, pH is important, don't skimp on a good pH meter that you calibrate, and a good thermometer.

CothermanDistilling

and bring John Palmer back into the picture:

Chapter 15 - Understanding the Mash pH @ How to Brew - By John Palmer

there are several pages, you have to use the 'next page' button at the bottom..

excerpts:

Water pH You would think that the pH of the water is important but actually it is not. It is the pH of the mash that is important, and that number is dependent on all of the ions we have been discussing. In fact, the ion concentrations are not relevant by themselves and it is not until the water is combined with a specific grain bill that the overall pH is determined, and it is that pH which affects the activity of the mash enzymes and the propensity for the extraction of astringent tannins from the grain husks.

Many brewers have made the mistake of trying to change the pH of their water with salts or acids to bring it to the mash pH range before adding the malts. You can do it that way if you have enough experience with a particular recipe to know what the mash pH will turn out to be; but it is like putting the cart before the horse. It is better to start the mash, check the pH with test paper and then make any additions you feel are necessary to bring the pH to the proper range. Most of the time adjustment won't be needed.

However, most people don't like to trust to luck or go through the trial and error of testing the mash pH with pH paper and adding salts to get the right pH. There is a way to estimate your mash pH before you start and this method is discussed in a section to follow, but first, let's look at how the grain bill affects the mash pH.

15.2 Balancing the Malts and Minerals

When you mash 100% base malt grist with distilled water, you will usually get a mash pH between 5.7-5.8. (Remember, the target is 5.1-5.5 pH.) The natural acidity of roasted specialty malt additions (e.g. caramel, chocolate, black) to the mash can have a large effect on the pH. Using a dark crystal or roasted malt as 20% of the grainbill will often bring the pH down by half a unit (.5 pH). In distilled water, 100% caramel malt would typically yield a mash pH of 4.5-4.8, chocolate malt 4.3-4.5, and black malt 4.0-4.2. The chemistry of the water determines how much of an effect each malt addition has. The best way to explain this is to describe two of the world's most famous beers and their brewing waters. The Pilsen region of the Czech Republic was the birthplace of the Pilsener style of beer. A Pils is a crisp, golden clear lager with a very clean hoppy taste. The water of Pilsen is very soft, free of most minerals and very low in bicarbonates. The brewers used an acid rest with this water to bring the pH down to the target mash range of 5.1 - 5.5 using only the pale lager malts.

punkin

You won't go wrong with the motion dynamics brewers package for a motor. I have a few garage door opener motors here that people were using on all sorts of mills, but wouldn't drive the MMM. My big drill wouldn't drive it either, just kept slipping, The motion dynamics combined with a spider coupling goes well. I wouldn't bother wiring up the speed adjuster, full speed works perfectly.

Put a handfull of grain through first and check the crush, adjust as needed till you have all kernels broken at least once and most are crushed but with the husks still intact (doesn't apply to wheat).

Clickeral

So get home and my pilsner whisky has finally rocketed off now its at 24c and puked all over my wall

Pics to come, the 20l cube with the lower sg wort has started fermenting from natural yeast (bugger)

guess ill have about 40-45l of product to run

And the bastard beer from last night is at an sg of 1037-1040 so ive pitched some us05 and will see how it comes out