The 4" Copper Cored Dephlegmator Attempt

CothermanDistilling

I was thinking of just having it hang by tubes coming in from the angled sides of the reducer, they could come down and have unions, swagelok ,or even 3/4 tri-clovers on them that the can connects to... and the inlet has a pipe that goes all the way to the bottom

CothermanDistilling

My ideas for the crystal dephleg...

With a typical cartridge can:

With liquid cooled plates:

captainshooch

Hey @Law_Of_Ohms what's the OD of a 4 x 6 reducer? The can is 7" ID and 7-5/8" OD. I do like the 8" opening for easy clean out, 4" would be tight. But a 6" TC would work. Good idea!

Law_Of_Ohms

@captainshooch

Law_Of_Ohms

@captainshooch

:(

captainshooch

Thanks @Law_Of_Ohms, this can has proven to be a hard headed ole gal! but I'm determined to set her ass straight! :D

captainshooch

Darn, sorry @CothermanDistilling I keep messing with your thread...anyhows, a cold finger coil stuffed in the 4X2 reducer sounds like a cool idea.

captainshooch

Like this poor paint example.

CothermanDistilling

@captainshooch , have you seen my pic above, just use the reducer to hold the inlet and outlet manifolds of a dephleg can with top entry... the dephleg body is just another piece of glass in the crystal dragon... then you can see the dephleg condensing action!

captainshooch

Dunno how I missed that but works the same and only 2 copper/stainless welds/braze to worry about. I like it. Build it! I will give it a run for her mulla! :)

Myles

Do it all in copper with tri clamp compatible flanges so you can drop it into either a glass or stainless section.

Or build a calendria style conddnser tc go through a stainless section.

FullySilenced

@Myles would you make the calendria style condenser take up what no more than 1/2 the volume of the column or up to 2/3 the area of the column bore? hell of a lot a surface area there... the through connectors could screw into the inner chamber walls prior to welding the the tube walls...

@LOO you should draw this one up sir... its a keeper and should be made... for test purposes

olddog

My Flute MkII had a drop in dephlegmater which had a vapor chamber above the condensor and a side take off on the column. You could achieve the same by using a T section for take off

FullySilenced

@Law_Of_Ohms see my prior post

CothermanDistilling

doesn't look modular, LOL.... not saying it is not pretty or won't work excellent, but my reducer-hung dephleg design would fit either a SS Spool above a Dash, or above a crystal dragon with one extra segment added...

FullySilenced

that looks great OD =D> ... @CothermanDistilling you gotta remember when OD did it no one else had...

olddog

It could easily be adapted to go modular, using a SD T section. The top plate could blank off the top of the T, and instead of the sight glass, it could be used for vapor take off at the side of the column. Cooling input and output would remain the same through the top cover plate.

Myles

@olddog, now that is quite a nice option for configuring the vapour take off point. Will consider that for my own use.

And @FullySilenced, yes it is a lot of area but it is one way to reduce both the height and coolant volume for those that need to do so.

I would agree though that these copper options are not needed by a large proportion of users. It has been widely reported that the SD dephlegmators are more than efficient enough. I see the copper ones as special use options.

CothermanDistilling

Yes, most SD users, those with cold (or free) water are fine.... Florida homebrewers have the same issue, and usually resort to 2-stage cooling of their wort, the 2nd stage being icewater. Florida pro brewers have giant water tanks cooled by glycol heat pumps...

and I meant no disrespect to OD, his stuff has always been inspiring for all of us... and yes, you could use a bubble T to run the coolant lines in and out...

grim

Talked to an old engineer to get his feelings about this, I'll sum up some of his comments:

Copper trumps Stainless, all else equal. But why does anything need to be equal?

Surface area trumps material.

Sizing trumps everything else, period.

Correctly sized stainless HX will outperform an undersized copper HX. Material not a panacea.

Cost is a major driver in industrial HX.

From his perspective, stainless wasn't better or worse, it was simply to run the calculation with the right parameters, and build to the output.

Ideally, the surface area would me maximized through the use of a much higher number of smaller diameter and thinner wall tubes. He acknowledged that this would represent a major manufacturing challenge, but was the real crux of the discussion. Maximizing surface area isn't simple, or cheap. Stated that he thought that if you had two similarly sized HX, one copper, one stainless, the one with the larger number of smaller diameter tubes would outperform the other.

If the HX design is a concern - Increase Delta T, Increase Delta T, Increase Delta T, Increase Flow, Increase Flow, Increase Flow.

Corrosion in the copper shell seemed to be a concern, depending on the coolant chemistry.

punkin

Sounds like just what we've been doing with the super condensors.

Regular 8"

8" super

CothermanDistilling

I dunno, you ever weld a 2' long piece of copper and have the other end too hot to grab with a glove within seconds? I call that much faster heat transfer than stainless....

punkin

Yep, agreed. The ol fella was just saying that if you change the parameters that the stainless will work equally as well.

At the price of extra length, extra tubes etc. Copper wins hands down if you are trying to fit it in the same space.

dad

Coiled CSST dephleg...in a "TEE"

Myles

For sheer architectural art do you remember that dephlegmator that was in effect multiple liebigs. I honestly can't remember where i saw it but it was nicely done.

CothermanDistilling

I will make this, and maybe we can come up with some real world test... how many watts I can pump into her with the dephleg knocking it all down... we need a college thermodynamics class to model this...

Nake

Couple of observations and considerations. Are you using a gas lense on the torch to keep the turbulence down and a trailing lense to keep the hot bead covered in gas. If you use a helium mix the penetration will be much greater than 100% argon. Too much back purge pressure can give you fits as well. My 2 cents. Keep up the great work I love it.

CothermanDistilling

Thanks for you 2 cents! No lens, just a standard water cooled tig torch with ceramic cup, the bad part of the weld where the argon ran out was actually better on the backside, so I can lower the backgas as long as a still have purged the O2... the back gas was not directed straight at the back, but just filling the void.... I have a tank of 75%Helium coming (maybe tomorrow) that I plan to just use when copper is involved for better penetration and less porosity. Now to build that variable speed rotary device like one of my friends has...

Nake

Try a larger cup if that helps then a gas lense most certainly will be helpful. What type of sst filler are you using? There are some filler alloy options that may be helpful. Ask your local welding supplier what they have for dissimilar metals. Also try to plug the excess holes on your plate. One way in for back purge gas, one way out for o2 to leave. If the back purge pressure is too high it will pull o2 in behind it thru the other holes. The joint is a means of gas escape as well so as you weld pressure for back purge needs to be low so turbulence is minimal. Great project!

CothermanDistilling

@Nake you will be a great help to many on here with your experience! I use whatever filler the shop sells me, lol, 304 I think... I will look tonight... I tried copper, but like the way stainless flows and the rod stays cooler. Argon is heavy and stays low, but when I go to A75 heli-arg, which is lighter and more expensive, I will need to watch the openings...