My 4" Crystal Dragon

grim

You got another one of those big parrots for me?

Smaug

Yes sir.

They are en route via SBFC.

Sadi

I did the bubble cap run.

Here it is at full reflux

Abv was around 94% not temperature corrected. Behaviour of the run was similar. As with the perf plate run, when tails started I closed the dephlag valve and abv dropped down to 50% quickly.

For comparison,

Although not temperature corrected abv seemed to be a bit lower. 94% with bubble caps and 94-95% with perf plates

Temperature after the dephlag at the top was at 71.3C with bubble caps and 71.2 mostly with perf plates.

Temperature of the water exiting dephlag was a couple of degrees higher with bubble caps. 63C and 60.3C.

The rate of product flow was faster with bubble caps. Around 1.9L which was around 1.4L with perf plates.

The total Kw consumed was lower with bubble caps. Around 5.2Kw, which was around 6Kw with perf plates.

I have not tasted product yet.

Some observations are,

Perf plates seems to require more power but produced less flow.

Bubble caps seems to be more sensitive to power/reflux changes.

How shall we read these data?

Smaug

Really interesting. I must admit that I am surprised that the caps offered a more rapid collection speed.

FullySilenced

AT the same power levels...Smaug.. he may not be able to max either one out if he has limited wattage with the heat plate.. or get them to max production rates...

just a note KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK Sadi....

FS

Myles

Thats a valid point FS. You would need to compare the vapour path through the perf plate to the cap plate to see if there was a correlation. At max power for the plates the results could be diferent.

Both plates use the same downcommer though. At higher power they might be the same. As the downcommers are the same you would expect both plates to flood at the same vapur speed/same reflux volume/same product rate etc. But that is just in theory

Sadi

Thanks FS :)

As you know, I am humbly trying to enjoy our hobby.

Cheers.

Sadi

I have tasted the vodka. Diluted to ~30% and sipping from one then from the other.

Any one is better than the other?

I am still sipping. :))

rossco

Well @rossco , I was doing like you, but somehow I was not satisfied. I was not sure if I was inducing too much reflux thus sacrificing output, ending with not using optimum power, or less reflux, which sometimes disturbed the balance of the plates, which I tried to overcome by increasing power and the plates did not respond well.This time, I started with lower power (around 1200W) to load the plates and looking at the downcomer I reduced the flow at the dephlag. When the downcomer was sending down just enough liquid to keep the bottom plate working I increased power to 1450, 1550, 1750 and 1900W (those are what is available) to see that there was not any noticable change at the plates and naturally I was getting more output.

Sadi I have always thought that plates need plenty of power, I use 6kw to heat up and drop to 3.6kw for the run, so I often don't even use a controller, even though I have 10/15amp controllers.

I find that for 4 plates this is a really sweet spot, plates are stable and output is around 2-3.2litres per hour depending which part of the run. Friday's UJSM varied 91-89% ABV (temp corrected) across 9.8litres after heads and tails cuts, single run.

The speed of takeoff will fall as reflux is used to hold the ABV across the run. Plates are standard bubblecaps with a perforated plate at position 2 from the boiler ATM.

Yesterday I had plenty of time so when the tails started to appear I increased the reflux to close to maximum to keep them in the column, speed was in the bokka type range but I managed to bleed off another 1.4litres before I got bored and shut down. I will not need to do a tails cut.

After reading this thread, I have been experimenting with the interaction of perforated plates and bubble caps, intending to experiment more, because I think the column is more stable with a mix. Been wondering how procaps might affect the mix.

BTW my column floods at 4-4.2kw with 4 plates.

Consider doubling your power output. Yep I may be a lunatic.

Rossco :))

rossco

Current setup, disregard the cattledog's mess.

punkin

Looks great Rossco, as usual you post very observant, insightful contributions. The boiler came up a treat.

That dog sure is a hyperactive messy prick. :))

rossco

14month old bluey bitch- itchy teeth :)

Sadi

@rossco said:

Consider doubling your power output. Yep I may be a lunatic.

Not at all a lunatic mate, you are definately right. :)

I will get a better boiler with decent power as soon as I can. It is just my current "situation" that I have to use what I have and learn using them properly.

I always love to see setups like yours, admiring how nicely they are made.

Getting the parts and having them welded seems to be a big problem for someone like me, who does not know what they are called here and has only seen them from pictures in forums.

Even if I find a shop who can do these things, when I try to explain what I need, things get "complicated." :))

Luckily, I have a friend who is very knowledgable (also a distiller from whom I got the bug), but he is very busy, and I have to be patient. Through him, I become friends with a couple of guys who has shops and can build things.

Now if it is glass, or wooden things, or fittings/connections I can make them crazy with my "designs" ;)) Interestingly they seem to be enjoying it. :-j I don't know if you have seen pictures of my continuous still experiments and previous setups.

I hope I can soon find someone who can do steel jobs the way we need them, and then ..... ;))

Cheers.

Sadi

@Rossco said: After reading this thread, I have been experimenting with the interaction of perforated plates and bubble caps, intending to experiment more, because I think the column is more stable with a mix. Been wondering how procaps might affect the mix.

After the experiment with only perforated plates and bubble plates, I was thinking the same. I think mixing plates may give us some benefits from both and some uncalculated benefits too. I could not think of anything that we may loose by doing that yet.

Also a perforated plate works better when having a bubble cap plate on top, without needing a lot of reflux or power as in the case of using only perf plates. However, this may only be important because I am not using enough power. Still it may be an advantage costwise.

Cheers.

rossco

I always love to see setups like yours, admiring how nicely they are made. Getting the parts and having them welded seems to be a big problem for someone like me, who does not know what they are called here and has only seen them from pictures in forums.

Sadi this is how this still evolved, it was not a complete still, it has evolved over a few years from some of the original dash bubble Ts and plates. I am learning how to weld, but the boiler was done recently by a well known still builder in Brisbane.

Recently I made a crude carter head from bits I had lying around, its not really like the StillDragon design but is basically made from their parts. Experimenting and sharing ideas keeps my mind active.

Rossco

FullySilenced

@rossco co A spud boiler?

Sadi

Experimenting and sharing ideas keeps my mind active.

That is what I enjoy too, @rossco

Sadi

I had a butterfly valve and a 4x4x2 T for VM, and atlast I used them.

CM was working good for neutrals, so I decided to try VM for anise infusion for my raki. I did not use any plates this time. I simply put the herbs on a bit of packing.

Wov, :-bd

I definately could get more anethole infusion. Started with the valve open half way. I was able to get heads out of the way at a high abv (above 90%) which did not carry over much anethole (was not producing a louche) and then I could adjust for lower abv to get a louche and could keep hearts at around 80% for a long time, which was my goal.

Also, watching tails was interesting. Although it was slow, they were coming at higher abv and it was fun watching product flow fluctuating and finally stopping.

Collecting product before the dephlag has some differences than collecting product after the dephlag. I will try it some more and learn.

I think I got a cleaner infusion with VM. This was a raki feints wash that I risked for this experiment, I will try it with a normal wash and see if I get better flavor also.

I was able to do VM with my previous glass setup, but somehow I did not try it then. It was a shame. ~X(

Cheers

rossco

@rossco co A spud boiler?

Yeah typically functional.

Great setup Sadi, I wonder if i could adapt my packed section n a couple of plates for making vodka.

Sadi

I am sure you can @rossco .

As you know, keeping the abv of the wash somewhat higher will also help.

Myles

Thats nice Sadi. You got the auto shutdown with tails ok?

Sadi

@Myles said: Thats nice Sadi. You got the auto shutdown with tails ok?

Yes. It was quite nice.

This is one setup that has its own unique features. Very interesting.

Now I have to figure out for which products this will produce good results. Infusions may be one of them.

Cheers.

FloridaCracker

@rossco said: :))

How many ProCaps does the 4" plate hold?

Smaug

@FloridaCracker said:

3

rossco

Would a mix of procaps and the other two flow faster again? And would the procaps flow enough to balance the other plates or simply transfer the problem further up? Just wondering.

Sadi

With a friend, we have tasted the vodkas from the bubble caps/perforated plates experiment.

As the products have been rested somemore the tastes were slightly better defined than my previous tasting.

The result is, we think the vodka from perforated plates run was a bit better seperated.

I am not sure if it is the plates or if I was not able to run the two identically.

Cheers.

Smaug

@Sadi said: With a friend, we have tasted the vodkas from the bubble caps/perforated plates experiment.

As the products have been rested somemore the tastes were slightly better defined than my previous tasting.

The result is, we think the vodka from perforated plates run was a bit better seperated.

I am not sure if it is the plates or if I was not able to run the two identically.

Cheers.

Run any whiskey or brandy yet?

Sadi

I was thinking about the results,

as the abv of the perforated plates run was slightly higher, that may be why the vodka from that run appealed to us more.

Still this does not say much in the favor of perforated plates I think. Maybe more will be revealed as we continue to test.

@Smaug said: Run any whiskey or brandy yet?

No not yet mate, I will try that too, but I can't tell when.

Cheers.

Sadi

@Myles has started a thread on thumpers and I decided to try if I could do it with the parts I had.

I stripped a 10% abv red grapes wash using a perforated plate with a bubble cap instead of a downcomer.

I wanted to stick with the potstill and did not use a dephlegmator. Using high power enabled me to load the plate and the level of liquid kept raising as it would in a thumper. I played with it and I could turn off the power and reduce the level of liquid and turn it on again and continue with that level.

This picture is from towards the end of the run. As you can see there are less bubbles than it would have with a downcomer. The Abv started around 75% and as a pot still should, it went down gradually.

I expect to get more bubbles with an all bubble cap plate. I will try that next.

I think this inefficiency/less bubles has some potential for lower abv and more flavour.

Cheers.

Lloyd

Outstanding information, as always @Sadi.
You have so many clever ideas.