Introducing the NEW +++ ProCap36 +++ Product Line-Up!

punkin

@FullySilenced said: It's just Zombie don't worry about it at all... Punkin about the other one...give him time and he will i promise...

I have no doubt in the world that he will, just one of those who likes to tear down the acheivements of others.

Same as the other idiot on HD, said it's nothing new he'd seen it before and then posts a picture of a bubbleball, our very first plate, 4 regular caps and a downcomer. :))

He has foot in mouth disease. X_X

olddog

I had lots of knockers when I built my first Flute, until folks realised that it worked.

punkin

Look how far that idea has come.

Philter

Congratulations on the newest release to the SD family.

The Pro caps look fantastic! =D>

Law_Of_Ohms

Only Lloyd and myself truly know the amount of time and effort that has gone into these.

Months and months of work, multiple samples, rejected ideas, even further behind the scenes that Lloyd does not see... locking myself away for weeks, thermal and flow analysis.

I don't care what others say. It's only human nature to reject new idea's when they are in a comfortable position within themselves.

If I've learned one thing, it's that if you have a new crazy idea, expect it to be rejected three or four times right at the start.

All my original files are under a folder called "lloyds crazy idea" and I think will keep it that way as a personal reminder to myself not to reject new ideas again from the start.

punkin

Thermal and flow analysis?

But some guy on the internet said you have no grasp of how downcomers work? :)) (:|

Lloyd

Dated Nov. 2013 is a drawing I'd been working on for several weeks before reluctantly showing it to @Law_Of_Ohms because he finds my drawings comical (even going so far as asking me to do finger paintings instead!).

Lloyd

Its great that HD is chiming in. Although well known for intolerance of members whispering anything about any other distilling forums we figured the ProCaps would be hard for them to contain. We have the good stuff and they know it.

The more they tear the ProCaps apart the more they will see it to be a distilling advancement.

Early round table discussions brought up the problem that our pending patent will keep some copycats from stealing our work so they will be forced to fabricate falsehoods instead of simply copying our products. This is just the beginning, guys and gals, you will see much more of those juvenile antics in the coming months. Its all good though... the more they try to discredit the ProCaps, or anything StillDragon, the more we know that we are on-track.

We have ALWAYS encouraged anyone to copy anything SD for THEIR OWN use if they have the ability. But ripping off our work and selling it as their own product ideas is just not kosher.

Considering the investment required to produce a single ProCap and then to get a cease and desist order should they actually do it, I feel the copycats are at a disadvantage on this one.

But we didn't bring the ProCaps out against the thieves, they were created for me and for you to use and enjoy.

StillDragon was, is, and always will be... Distillers Creating Great Gear for Distillers.

My personal 5" ProCap Crystal Dragon blows my socks off. It is as close to a truly professional still as I will probably ever get to run. Amazing speed, low cost, fabulous to look at... Married to an @olddog controller... Producing 6+L/H of high class 94+%... It ain't your Mama's still.

This is MY still. Built to my limitations of power and space. It has exceeded all of my expectations. I should be happy, right?, and stop here. Stop developing new innovations?
HaHa, no! Doesn't work like that.

I want to develop the most perfect apartment stove-top sized still, something for Mama. Actually SCALE DOWN the bubble column to a single ProCap. I've found that a 2.5" sight tower is the ideal size for the ProCap36 but 2.5" is so oddball that the reducers to get back to the common 2" is too expensive so (perhaps I need to start another thread?) I've commissioned a 2.5" sight tower to be made with 2" TC ends instead of 2.5". We'll see how that goes in a few weeks when the parts start coming in.

12" Monster CD column prototype is now in production. Which caps would YOU use for it? :))
It's @grim's still and it took him all of 15 seconds to decide but only because he was seeing it for the first time. I thought it would take him longer, a few minutes at least, but he is spending the big bucks on a huge 12" still and immediately saw the advantages. Kindred spirit him and me.
I can do 5", he can do 12", and we both want the best quality and value.
A 1000L steam boiler with a 12" still landed in the US is about $75,000 minimum. StillDragon would feel that we are ripping off the customers at 1/2 that price.
No 12" pricing is available yet but I wager @grim will be elated with both price and quality when he receives his big still.
And I cannot thank him enough for his daily input towards the design. Just wish his Mama needed an apartment sized still so I could squeeze more great ideas out of him :D

Smaug

For those who are not seeing what the potential is here, please be reminded that we do have a 100%, no questions asked, money back guarantee as with all StillDragon products.

RedDoorDistillery

@Lloyd Yey on the 12". Now once you get that done get going on a 20"+. When I outgrow my 8" the next step for me will be 20"+ inches... lol. Now that might be a while but it will sure be nice to be able to just order it up and have it delivered vs all the R&D that went into the 1st 8" Crystal Dragon. Even though that was a lot of fun...

You jumped into the bottom end of the Pro World with the 8" now its time to take over the Pro-Market and make these other guys rethink how they have been gouging all the Pros for years....

RedDoorDistillery

OK... Maybe a 16" will do.... lol

CothermanDistilling

@Lloyd - a 8" crystal dragon set up on a 380L if you want me to be that specific ;-)

Also, does anyong have video of a ProCap plate running underneath a traditional bubble cap plate, then cranking up the power? We should be able to see the OBCP flood, right?

Final question, what would the ProCap max rate (while still pushing quality product) be to a perf plate, about the same?

grim

Mathematically, based on plate size alone, the 12" should run a little more than twice as fast as the 8" (about 2.25x).

I think 35 liters per hour, run average, is going to be within the realm of reasonability, maybe even a bit conservative since the 12" plates will have 18 of the larger caps. This means an 1000 liter single wash run can be done in less than an 8 hour shift (fill, heat, run, drain, clean).

Myles

Nov 2013 Lloyd ;) You didn't let me see that sketch till January :))

I know we have discussed this privately but I still think that on the 12" there is potential to run the new ProCaps in combination with the original caps on the same plate.

You have the potential to really tailor the liquid flow path across the plate with the ProCaps.

grim

Wife says the pro caps looks like donuts.

There you have it.

waxernz

I am in the process of building a 3 or 4 plate 3" sight glass tower. Do you think a single cap per plate do work okay?

Lloyd

Yes, a single ProCap on a 3" sight tower plate will be great. I've found the 2.5" sight tower to be even better (cost wise) but the reducers to get that odd-ball size back to the common 2" destroys the cost advantage. I've ordered a 2.5" sight tower to be made with 2" TC ends instead of 2.5" but it may be a couple of weeks before the prototype is ready.
We have all seen our stills getting bigger and more complex over the years and that can be intimidating to folks just starting out, very limited budget, no shed or garage, etc...

Wallybox

Not sure if I am missing something or not, but won't you have leftover liquid in each cap? If so clean up wouldn't be the easiest. I guess you could use the CIP and just flood it but then you still have water after that. Forgive me but I am somewhat lazy and don't want to have to break it all down each run. Just being honest...

FullySilenced

You might drill a. 1/64. Hole along the bottom outside perimeter for it to drain. Just thinkin again

Lloyd

@RedDoorDistillery said: OK... Maybe a 16" will do.... lol

With @Law_Of_Ohms inspired flange idea, truly any size is possible - within the limits of sourcing the glass in low quantities.

@CothermanDistilling said: Lloyd - a 8" crystal dragon set up on a 380L if you want me to be that specific ;-)

Also, does anyong have video of a ProCap plate running underneath a traditional bubble cap plate, then cranking up the power? We should be able to see the OBCP flood, right?

Final question, what would the ProCap max rate (while still pushing quality product) be to a perf plate, about the same?

I'm with you, surely that configuration is out there and running, maybe @Smaug can get someone to post a video?

I never thought to mix the old and new plates and so far I'm still the only one that has run the ProCaps, but that will change in a few days and more hard data will begin to flood in (sorry for the pun).

I don't know much about perf plates. I made only one batch of 4" perf plates and they ran OK but most have remained unsold while we kept producing thousands more bubble caps. SD customers have voted with their wallets and they didn't vote for the perf plates.
I've entertained the idea of putting ProCaps on a perf plate. My feeling is a perf plate should be stainless so the holes would stay cleaner, longer.

@Myles said: Nov 2013 Lloyd ;) You didn't let me see that sketch till January :))

I know we have discussed this privately but I still think that on the 12" there is potential to run the new ProCaps in combination with the original caps on the same plate.

You have the potential to really tailor the liquid flow path across the plate with the ProCaps.

I had to wait awhile until @Law_Of_Ohms stopped calling me crazy.

I think the 12" will take all day to set up for two strong men. So setup and tear down to test different plates may not be something @grim is willing to do. BUT I'm ordering a few blank plates of each size and the hole cutters for both sizes of caps for anyone that wants to explore that idea. I'm absolutely positive that someone more clever than me will find their ultimate plate configuration. It could possibly be a combination of both kinds of caps and perforations all on one plate.

@grim said: Wife says the pro caps looks like donuts.

There you have it.

If you hold up just the crown part it looks like a flower. I doubt that will impress her as a Mother's Day present.

olddog

I have run with perf plates for some time now, it's my preference, but I would not be knocking those who prefer caps, it's a personal choice. Most "Home distillers " make the mistake of putting too many holes in a perf plate and need a heap of power and vapor flow to support the plate. My still has plates with only 36 holes in a 3 plate 4"column and performs with only 2400w.

Lloyd

@olddog a 2.5" perf plate with a single SD downcomer would certainly reduce the cost on the stove top still, which is my goal.

olddog

Should be easy Lloyd, just dont make the plate a colander, you dont need that many holes. I think a single cap would be ideal though as you already have those in stock

jbierling

@Lloyd said: I never thought to mix the old and new plates and so far I'm still the only one that has run the ProCaps

If a ProCap would fit in the center OBCP spot on 8" after its drilled to the wider width, I'd be interested in trying it out. I've never completely solved my flooding problem even by adding more than 4 downcomers and would be interested in knowing whether adding a ProCap helps.

punkin

I wonder if one of the stainless perf plate downcomers would help ther mate? They are pretty big pipe.

CothermanDistilling

I suggested the ProCap under the OBCP as a way of showing it's abilities... shows it can be faster without flooding. and then with a perf plate, shows how close it can get to the fastest method... show that it is best of both worlds. .

grim

Problem with comparing perf and bubble cap trays is that they both have very different operating behaviors and effective operating ranges. It's not even a matter of better or worse, different tool for a different situation.

Depending on the perf plate design, putting it right next to the bubble tray might yield "better" or "worse" performance, but it's going to be highly dependent on the specific operating parameters. Designed for the same operating parameters, they'd operate similarly. Industry literature supports this high level approximation.

Perf trays are going to be more efficient, lower cost, and faster than bubble cap trays. But bubble trays can operate effectively over a much wider range than a perf tray ever could (turndown). Which is more important for you?

I think you would be able to compare the old and new cap and tray designs in the same column, but comparing either to perf is going to be trickier. It would be very easy to adjust the reflux and vapor speeds to have one design "win" over the other. I suspect the new trays will have a wider operating range than the old trays, in both directions. Somewhere in the middle, they'll likely operate similarly. Push the vapor speed and reflux up, and the older tray designs will likely hit the flood point sooner.

And we're really just focused on two design parameters, flooding and dumping, not even considering entrainment, foaming, dwell time, etc.

FullySilenced

Damn Grim... your starting to sound like a professional distiller... :D

grim

I'm the worst combination of ADHD and OCD, if only my calculus was better, I'd really be dangerous.

I've found the material at the following two links to be extremely helpful:

CHE 1008 Introduction to Staged Separations

PowerPoint Presentations @ www.hs-augsburg.de/~schaafa/Korrektorat_Reppich

P11.pptx at the second link is really good, slide 6 is especially useful for this conversation.

moscca

@olddog said: I have run with perf plates for some time now, it's my preference, but I would not be knocking those who prefer caps, it's a personal choice. Most "Home distillers " make the mistake of putting too many holes in a perf plate and need a heap of power and vapor flow to support the plate. My still has plates with only 36 holes in a 3 plate 4"column and performs with only 2400w.

That is interesting OD. Can you tell me what diameter these holes are ? Thanks.