New Make Rum

edited May 19 in General

So I've been listening to "The Rumcast" podcast and these guys seem very well connected and have a good feel for what is happening on the global rum market. Also, they do a really nice job of breaking down some of the more esoteric talking points of some of their pretty esteemed guests.

Though I will say that I wish they would give a bit more love to the smaller (US) domestic distilleries. Guys like our very own @CothermanDistilling company and Rollins Distillery (among others) are doing a great job and absolutely pointed in the right direction.

I digress. One of the reoccurring themes on the podcast is how the unaged rums seem to be gaining traction. Though I am not quite clear what precisely constitutes "unaged" ?

Anyway my point is that I feel like new make rum is on it's way to becoming more marketable / desirable.

Anyone else feel the same? Thoughts?

StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

Comments

  • Always tastes like bourbon to me if it's not aged long enough, unless you are talking white rum?

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • edited May 18

    @punkin said: Always tastes like bourbon to me if it's not aged long enough, unless you are talking white rum?

    Ah sorry. Yes white rum. All this white rum (particularly the Agricole's) made throughout the Caribbean and in South America is starting to get some positive recognition (compared to the more prestigious barrel aged). I assume that is a good trend for the newer pro guys trying to create a reliable revenue stream?

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • Unaged isn't always unaged. Maggie's Farm unaged is normally at least a year old. They just let it sit in SS container with the lid loose to air it out. They win lots of medals with it.

    When I talk to my partner about making rum we talk about having a SS tote with cutouts for barrel heads on the bottom. Lets things age without significant oak influence. "Silver" Rum that has time to age properly.

  • I much prefer white rum as an everyday drink or a mixer drink. Really good barrel aged is great, but average mid shelf is pretty basic.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • edited May 19

    @SingleMaltYinzer said: Unaged isn't always unaged. Maggie's Farm unaged is normally at least a year old. They just let it sit in SS container with the lid loose to air it out. They win lots of medals with it.

    When I talk to my partner about making rum we talk about having a SS tote with cutouts for barrel heads on the bottom. Lets things age without significant oak influence. "Silver" Rum that has time to age properly.

    Agree. Rollins doesn't put anything in the bottle that hasn't at least been "rounding out" for two years.

    Cotherman will be here to chime I assume? But him and Dean are making nice rum.

    My point is that it feels like the young rums are gaining traction and I reckon that's a good thing.

    Just wondering if any rummies in all yalls market are becoming more visible? Any indication if the rum enthusiasm is trending on a similar path as whiskey and tequila?

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • As an aside but similar line of thought with respect to new make and its potential popularity, I picked up a bottle of Nixta ( licor de elote ).

    It tastes just like the white dog that comes off the continuous still. Kind of like hot buttered pop corn. Only this Nixta is sweetened. Anyway, some super interesting cocktails with white flavored, unaged spirits.

    I figure anything to promote unaged is going to be helpful. That is as long as the un aged isn't gawd awful.

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • I had to look it up because I'm a geek and that's what I do: Review: Nixta Licor de Elote @ Drinkhacker

    I was actually looking into nixtamalization. I was thinking about rehydrating full kernels, nixtamalizing it, then using a stick blender to "grind" it. So my idea of being the first to do that is now crushed. Any more dreams of mine you want to destroy? (ha) I'll have to find a bottle of that to try it.

    Around here it's all moonshine. It's mostly flavored so you don't see much just plain spirit. This weekend we're having a local only spirits fest so I will be trying a lot: PA Spirits Fest

  • edited May 20

    @SingleMaltYinzer said: I had to look it up because I'm a geek and that's what I do: Review: Nixta Licor de Elote @ Drinkhacker

    I was actually looking into nixtamalization. I was thinking about rehydrating full kernels, nixtamalizing it, then using a stick blender to "grind" it. So my idea of being the first to do that is now crushed. Any more dreams of mine you want to destroy? (ha) I'll have to find a bottle of that to try it.

    Around here it's all moonshine. It's mostly flavored so you don't see much just plain spirit. This weekend we're having a local only spirits fest so I will be trying a lot: PA Spirits Fest

    Haha.

    No do it. Pic up a bottle and see what I mean. If your bourbon new make comes over as good and corny this a very interesting drink. Though I personally would back off on the sweeting agent as it is very sweet and therefore limits how well the corny goodness comes over in a cocktail if you want this product to be the dominant flavor profile. In other words, if using this particular product to make an alcohol forward cool cocktail, it ends up being a sugar bomb. Can always use other adjuncts to dampen back the sweet. But then that also dampens back the corny goodness.

    Buy a bottle. Reverse engineer. Make it better (less sweet). Sell to me so I can make cool "cornbread" Manhattans.

    Ok sorry for the drift since there is Rum in the title of this thread.

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • @SingleMaltYinzer said: I had to look it up because I'm a geek and that's what I do: Review: Nixta Licor de Elote @ Drinkhacker

    I was actually looking into nixtamalization. I was thinking about rehydrating full kernels, nixtamalizing it, then using a stick blender to "grind" it. So my idea of being the first to do that is now crushed. Any more dreams of mine you want to destroy? (ha) I'll have to find a bottle of that to try it.

    Around here it's all moonshine. It's mostly flavored so you don't see much just plain spirit. This weekend we're having a local only spirits fest so I will be trying a lot: PA Spirits Fest

    Just buy a 50 lb bag of masa harina. All the nixtamization work has been done. Makes great tasting corn whiskey.

  • You're all a bunch of enablers... ha

    Anyhow - back to rum. With the growth of distilling, rum is one of the first things people make. It's just easy. It's good to see people really learning it. Next time I'm down I'll have to sample some of the ones you're talking about.

  • Sorry I am late to the game, running concrete saw for an extra half inch of width for a new impact glass door for the gift shop that is arriving tomorrow has me worn out...

    I see an increasing demand for white rum with 'natural rum flavor', not flavorless and not paint thinner, which seemed like the only choices for a long time... And man, I tell you, my SD 30-plate 8" CD column on a 380L filled with the output of 2 1000L strips of 300-340Kg of molasses makes it easy to crank out at fairly high speed (for craft). Coming off at 173-189, I still get lots of flavor but can compress heads and tails nicely... I toss about 25-30% of total 'alcohol', but worth every penny and I no longer have a tear in my eye when doing so... lower ferment temps can lower that, but they also lower flavor... I am by no means an expert, but I know enough to be dangerous. Now I did spend 3+ years bloviating on here about my trials and errors and shitty molasses, but it was all good learning.

    I think my 'new make' improves after a several months or a year in a IBC tote, might in stainless too. Low wines also improve this way, I found out by accident. We used to put rougher stuff in separate containers for later barreling, but in the interest of fewer containers and easier inventory of nearly 50 containers, we just do a single new-make, good enough to either proof to 151.0 for overproof, 120 for a barrel, or 80-ish and let sit on a drum ready for final proofing to 80.0 for silver or flavoring for our tiki/dark/rumking, a drum gives us about 40 6-pack cases whish handles in house and small distribution footprint.

    Finally, why we make the flavor of the rum we do. I did rum fests and hukilau a couple times and over half the rums out there were not to my liking, half of those were more funky than I could appreciate(at the time) and the rest were crappy fermentation and cuts... Our rums based on our base 'new make' can be so strong in a rum runner that they are over 20%ABV in the keg we pre-make and pour over ice and then add a floater of dark rum and people say they barely taste the rum... 2 of them put a big person down for the count... and they come back again and do the same thing and bring friends. We make rum slushies with more alcohol than the big name slushy places you see in vacation spots and zero paint thinner taste that they all have... everything tastes better with clean white rum... Mojitos, Painkillers, Cuba Libres...

  • edited May 20

    Agree wholeheartedly. my silver rum was pulled off a VM column at 96% (neutral was the aim) but it was rich and full of molasses. I can also say a small addition of the correct portion of late heads will enrich the bottle immensely. That's the tiny bit of knowledge i was able to gain with a minor flirtation.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • To confuse matters:

    Some rums are aged in barrels (Cuban an example) then filtered to turn them back into a white rum.

    Have these rums been aged? Certainly have. Even though they are white rums.

  • @Homebrew said: To confuse matters:

    Some rums are aged in barrels (Cuban an example) then filtered to turn them back into a white rum.

    Have these rums been aged? Certainly have. Even though they are white rums.

    Sure. Papa's Pilar on the otherhand sells a blond rum that is a rum barrel aged in a spent barrel but not carbon filtered.

    If you maintain a ridged point of view, one might say that the rum is so pale that it is off putting. But it is not at all. It is a well rounded white rum disguised as an extremely pale semi-"aged" rum.

    At the time, I'd say it was somewhat ground breaking, and a major contributor to why younger rums are gaining commercial traction.

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • It's not as if mescal hasn't been doing it forever.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • edited May 23

    PR rums are more commonly aged and filtered than Cuban I thought.

    There is a huge improvement in flavor and mouthfeel as a result. Big vanilla and coconut from the barrel.

  • edited May 23

    @punkin said: It's not as if mescal hasn't been doing it forever.

    That's a good point. Probably not enough global perspective on my part.

    Though it does seem that the reposados only get a few months rest in the barrel. Sounds like they are newer make than PR white rum.

    Again, to me that is a good trend for you guys that need to make product available asap and don't want to spend on an outside source to fill in the gaps.

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • Here in Aus, to be labelled as rum, the spirit must have been aged in an oak cask for a minimum of 2 years. If it hasn't it can't be called rum. That's why things like some of the popular spiced "rums" are actually labelled as "spiced cane spirit".

    Like @punkin i've made white spirit off a molasses base through 4 plates and a packed section. It comes off at 90+%ABV and is tasty as when cut back. Depending on how deep I have gone into tails, it made a great drink when "stretched" with neutral to dial back the rich rum flavour. No carbon filtering undertaken.

    The commercial white rums are all barrel aged then have the colour removed.

  • Hey croz mate. What was the yeast you used?

  • Fission yeast seems to be the darling.

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • edited May 31

    @Smaug said: Fission yeast seems to be the darling.

    This from Stephen Schellenburger:

    Team Pombe and the Yeast Olympiad @ Boston Apothecary

    Seems to raise more questions than answers? But the dude is a pretty smart cookie so I'm looking forward to any updates he has on the subject matter.

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • edited May 30

    Sorry, skeptical - did the pombe thing and was not impressed.

    Clearly I haven’t access to the magic strain.

    It’s a very slow fermenter - I suspect that has a bigger impact to this story than anything else.

    I’ve gone back and forth with Stephen and his new yeast guy. I hear they are aiming for beer now, it’s a far more lucrative market.

  • edited May 30

    I don’t buy his rum oil damascenone radiance theory either. Spent $200 on ultra pure damasc. variant samples, and ran a bunch of A/B tests. Didn’t elicit any kind of epiphany.

    Love Stephen, his work is groundbreaking, and one day we will all crack the code.

    There is defiantly something going on with carotenoids during fermentation though.

    I did a batch of crazy orange corn, and the rose and floral was completely off the charts.

  • @grim said: I don’t buy his rum oil damascenone radiance theory either. Spent $200 on ultra pure damasc. variant samples, and ran a bunch of A/B tests. Didn’t elicit any kind of epiphany.

    Love Stephen, his work is groundbreaking, and one day we will all crack the code.

    There is defiantly something going on with carotenoids during fermentation though.

    I did a batch of crazy orange corn, and the rose and floral was completely off the charts.

    With the fission yeast?

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • @grim said: There is defiantly something going on with carotenoids during fermentation though.

    I did a batch of crazy orange corn, and the rose and floral was completely off the charts.

    If you're talking about the Creole Orange - I tried a batch. It tasted like candy corn and was super aromatic. I didn't get the same with Bloody Butcher though, it should have even more carotenoids based on color. I want to try something with carrots just to see what happens.

    @grim said: Sorry, skeptical - did the pombe thing and was not impressed.

    Clearly I haven’t access to the magic strain.

    It’s a very slow fermenter - I suspect that has a bigger impact to this story than anything else.

    I haven't gotten to play with pombe yet. The long ferment is where I think the key is also. The enzymatic action of yeast is the most efficient/effective and profusive producer of esters. The distilling and aging produce them also, just not as much.

    I owe you an email too. Building out the new space has take up all of my time. We're almost done.

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