Loony bin and crazy ideas

Lloyd

Law_Of_Ohms

Your bubble caps has balls!

nvnovrts

yeah, like that one big one with the same open area as the smaller ones. They almost look like copper bowls. Great for that permanent application. is this something you have considered before?

Lloyd

Just playing with an idea, probably nothing will come if it.
I'm not willing to give up space on a bubble plate for a dedicated plug/lift but modifying and moving just one of the small caps up to drain or disable the plate is a curiosity.
The fundamental question is always the same, is it worth it?
Being fully modular makes this idea less attractive considering the complexity and expense for producing the parts. For a fixed, unchanging column it would have more value.
On a fixed column, valves that drain the plates are popular but I can't help but wonder if anyone ever uses them or if the customer simply bought into a salesman's expensive upgrade.
If I want to run 5 plates, I run 5 plates and I see no need to disable plates during a run.
If I want to drain a plate then I can always drill a single 1.2mm hole in the plate. That will act as a miniature perf plate area during distillation and slowly drain the plate after shutdown.

That's why this idea is in the Looney Bin 8-} Just because we CAN do it does not solve the question of WHY should we bother to do it.

A more interesting question is, What would happen if we combined perf and bubble caps on the same plate? Would we reap any benefits? Would the caps help to equalize the pressure of a perf plate when stacking more and more of them together? Or would weeping become a problem?
By drilling small holes into the plate around the bubble caps it may be possible to increase the efficiency of the plate and allow many more plates to be used. Bubble caps seem to hold an advantage over perf in minimizing the pressure buildup problem when stacking lots of plates together. Perf has the advantage of maximizing the usable area on the plate. It would be an interesting experiment.

olddog

I have built stills with plate disabling systems, they make little or no difference as the plate still provides some reflux even when disabled.

OD

Lloyd

Thanks @olddog, that confirms my suspicion that disablers are just a costly add-on.

Lloyd

8x2x2 torpedo reducer for converting a keg into a conical fermenter.
6x4, 4x3 and 4x2 are all popular sizes.

Just wish I could remember why I produced the 3x2. They arrived yesterday and I'm stumped for what they can be used for =))
I was tinkering with a 3" vodka column about a month ago and that fits the timeframe for its' production but that does not explain how it would be useful.
3" to 2" is a popular reducer so they won't go to waste, especially with the thermowell.
Some ideas are just looney.

Smaug

We do have a few customers that have fabricated their own 3" plates and used the remainder of our 3" parts for their bubble column assemblies. Someone one will want them sooner or later.

nvnovrts

4x2 with a thermo well?

punkin

Done already

nvnovrts

Is that on the US site? Thinking top of the deflag for vapor temp.

CothermanDistilling

Why are the thermowells not drilled out very far(only 18mm)? I ordered a spare, and chucked it in the lathe and drilled it out to a 45mm deep hole, within 1/8" inch of the tip... I guess I could order another spare and do some tests comparing temperature lag of regular vs drilled out, and also the amount of influence by the large mass of the stainless fitting it is welded to, but I feel that I know which one will be better for measuring vapor temps..

punkin

@nvnovrts said: Is that on the US site? Thinking top of the deflag for vapor temp.

You'd have to ask Larry mate, but i have them in the torpedo style so you can view/flush whatever you like and they have a thermoport as well.

thunder88

@Lloyd, that 8x2x2 looks interesting. But I bet it won't be cheap. Were you thinking of using the standard 2" port on the keg for filling and then capping it off with a TC barb for. Then weld an 8" ferrule on the bottom, add some legs and 2" butterfly valves. With all the clamps and fitting I can see this costing more than $300 in parts without factoring in any labour.

punkin

That's the plan. Not cheap but cheaper than a conical if you already have a keg. They'd a couple sold in Australia already as well as a three quarter by three quarter one.I

thunder88

@punkin, I'm in Canada but in the US you can get the Stout Tanks 12.5gal conical with the valves and all fittings for $429 off ebay. I don't know the cost of the 8x2x2 but based on the cost of other similar size fittings if figure it will be over $100 and that with labour and parts the cost of converting a keg would be more than the cost of the new Stout Tanks conical. My local welder that can do sanitary quality welds charges $80hr.

punkin

Your decision is easy then.

thunder88

@Punkin, Yup I'll continue to use my unmodified kegs to ferment in. Cheapest solution there is.

punkin

No, plastic recycled buckets are the cheapest, some people line them with bin liners to save sanitising too. :-O

cooperville

@nvnovrts i have one setup on top of my deflag and works a treat

@Punkin yep met a guy over here that does it for his beers and he makes a pretty good barley wine the idea surprised thats probably why i remembered

nvnovrts

20G brutes for the ferment cant be beat. just go easy on the scrubbing when you sanitize so as not to scratch.

Seems that vapor temp above the Deflag would be the most accurate place to measure temp and therefore know what you will be receiving at the other end of the condenser. I guess you could just watch the hydro in the parrot, but, would there be a substantially greater lag time when adjusting the deflag water flow to product % ?

RedDoorDistillery

@nvnovrts OldDog did some testing on this and the temp right below and right above the Deflag were pretty much the same. If you try to build an automated cooling controller then you would need to use the temp under the Dephlem as during full reflux the temp above the dephlem would not be registering any vapor temp as there is no vapor passing the dephlem. This would cause your controller to try to fully open the cooling valve even if that was not needed based of the capabilities of the dephlem wasting water.

My temp sensor is right below the dephlem and I have checked it against the proof coming out of the parrot. As long as the Temp of the column has not changed in some time the parrot proof is exactly what I would expect based on the temp from under the Dephlem. You are correct about needing to take the Parrot Proof lag into account as you have to wait until the volume of liquid in the parrot has had time to dilute to the current output of the column after a temp change occurs.

CothermanDistilling

I believe if you used a thermostatic valve with the probe above the dephlegmator and set it for somewhere above ambient/water temp and below vapor temp, that it would work nicely... as soon as some vapor warmed up the sensor bulb to say, 120F, the cooling water would increase... since you really would be doing a balancing act of water ve power, the major concern would be with inertia, that is that the cooling water may take a few seconds or more to actually cool the vapor... another concern is physically fitting the thermostatic valve in place, the probe is rather large, and would work great above a 8" dephlegmator, but would have to be fiddled with to fit in a 4", maybe in an elbow or something. I picked up a couple more danfoss valves since the eBay seller dropped the price to under $100, it may be a few months, but I will try it out and report back......

thunder88

@punkin, maybe buckets would be cheaper if you had to buy them, but I found my 4, 50l sanke kegs out at the side of the road on someones moving day, so they were free.

Lloyd

Free kegs?! You want your money back? :))

punkin

Score.

The fittings came from a customer request rather than us trying to beat the price of a conical. A couple of Aussies wanted em, so we built em. :-bd

Myles

I have bubble caps lined up for my own hexagonal column, with 6 to each plate and a central downcommer.
However after watching that crystal dragon video that just went up I am going to add a bowl shaped deflector to the downcommer. Held on with the same screw, it will divert the reflux so it does not flow off the screw as it does in the video.

After lloyds recent comment about a propeller I did consider it for about 1/2 second. Perhaps a rotating reflux distributor might be going a bit far. It would probably throw all the reflux out to the column wall - not what I had in mind. :)) :))

Lloyd

@Myles, my propeller would need to be small enough to not be caught in the reflux stream. Remember the sensors in Dorothy in the movie Twister?
And what's wrong with slinging the reflux onto the walls of the column? Any wetted surface that's exposed to the upcoming vapors is just one more surface for enrichment?

Myles

Actually the walls issue is as you say (I was having a packed column moment). 8-|

For a reflux distributor it would need to be in the reflux stream, but as a vapour speed device you are correct, it would need to be protected.

crozdog

@thunder88 unfortunately here in Oz, rotamoulded plastic conicals like you refer to are $500 + freight & fittings.

wish we could get stout tanks / us plastics pricing down her cause small SS conicals are $900+