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Coronavirus - Alcohol Based Hand Sanitizer

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  • edited March 2020

    $700 for fish tank medicine on eBay. Fck the world.

    That big new supercomputer that identified that says that Yerba Santa might be effective too. Bought some supplements online.

    Repurposing Therapeutics for COVID-19: Supercomputer-Based Docking to the SARS-CoV-2 Viral Spike Protein and Viral Spike Protein-Human ACE2 Interface @ ChemRxiv

  • edited March 2020

    The WHO formula is 80% after additions, not 60%.

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  • i'm basing my recipe on this formula but tweaking it down to 65% & using aloe as well

  • My pops who spent lots of years in big pharma says 70% is what they used, never lower. They used so much they mixed it themselves.

  • edited March 2020

    Higher is better if we are talking about viruses...

    Efficacy of ethanol against viruses in hand disinfection (PDF)

    Follow the formula or don’t do it.

  • Another thing - you can not skip the hydrogen peroxide, and you must quarantine your sanitizer for 72 hours for the peroxide to be able to I activate bacterial and fungal spores introduced in non-sterile manufacturing.

    As simplistic as the WHO DIY is, there is real science behind it.

  • 70% - no less.

    StillDragon Europe - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Europe & the surrounding area

  • edited March 2020

    Thanks for the info @grim

    CDC and other studies such as the US FDA all state 60-95%:

    I also found this analysis: Introduction to Hand Sanitizers @ Microchem Laboratory

    Those of you in the USA will need to conform to this:

    Policy for Temporary Compounding of Certain Alcohol-Based Hand Sanitizer ProductsDuring the Public Health Emergency - Immediately in Effect Guidance for Industry (PDF) @ FDA

    Where I am, the acceptable dosage forms and strengths are:

    • Ethanol: Lotion, gel or solution formulated as a hand rub: 60-95% v/v absolute ethanol
    • Isopropyl alcohol: Lotion, gel or solution formulated as a hand rub: 60-95% v/v
    • A combination of ethanol and isopropyl alcohol: Lotion, gel or solution formulated as a hand rub: Total alcohol content of 60-95% v/v
  • The big question is viral effectiveness, not necessarily bacterial.

  • edited March 2020

    The World Health Organization standard I'm going to assume to be "global" and not US-specific. USA, in particular the FDA, has adopted this standard, and the TTB as well.

    Keep in mind there is quite a bit of likely brilliant science behind the WHO standard and method of manufacture.

    From the Viral study I posted above.

    The evidence for sufficient activity of ethanol against enveloped viruses is very broad. Hand rubs must fulfill the EN 1500 efficacy requirement, hence they often contain >=80% ethanol when applied for 30 s. At this concentration hand rubs have comprehensive activity against different types of enveloped viruses.

    Coronavirus is an enveloped virus. Is there a study on ethanol sanitizer and coronavirus? Who knows, I haven't found it. However, the study looks legit, and they are saying greater than 80%, and looking at the WHO standard as being a key standard to follow.

    If they are potentially less effective at 65%, what's the point?

  • edited March 2020

    Spoke too soon, didn't check rxiv - new study published 4 days ago. I stand corrected (although will still follow the WHO standard to a T).

    Efficient inactivation of SARS-CoV-2 by WHO-recommended hand rub formulations and alcohols - 2020.03.10.986711v1.full (PDF)

    Hugely positive.

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  • Keep in mind, this is saying that even vodka would be effective.

  • I looked up the methods in the study cited above and the results are based on a suspension test. The test agent is added to bovine serum albumin and mixed in a solution of disinfectant. Not an expert in this area, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night, the method does not seem to replicate the normal state of exposure. Viruses are much harder to inactivate than bacteria. If it was me, I would stick with the 70%+ concentration recommendation.

  • Thanks @grim we're looking into the local requirements for formulation, testing and labelling. So far they haven't announced anything like the FDA & TTB has re the endorsement of the WHO formulation.

  • edited March 2020

    @grim said: Higher is better if we are talking about viruses...

    Efficacy of ethanol against viruses in hand disinfection (PDF)

    Follow the formula or don’t do it.

    Looks like COVID19 is part of SARS family and susceptible to lower concentrations.
    While someone might get away with a lower concentration to battle current outbreak, the question is whether this gives people a false sense of security as its not as effective in killing other kinds of viruses...

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  • Does anybody use essential oils in their sanitizers? Or distilled botanicals for that matter?

  • Corsair used a batch of gin - they called it gintervention.

  • So yeah. We’ve been cranking this out as fast as we can bottle it. We’ve maxed out the supplies of dispensers in the country and have two bottle makers going full out to make for us. Let’s just say I’ve had this WHO stuff all over me. Lol (we are using the recommended recipe.

    My comments on this are as follows:

    @grim's first instinct is correct. Stick with the recipe.

    Here’s why: ... it dries before 30 seconds.

    The higher the ABV the faster the kill rate.

    Just because you soak something in 30% alcohol and it dies in 30 seconds does not equate to the typical exposure it’ll get when you apply to your hands. It dries very quickly as you spread it around. Conversely if you add too much water the it dries slower and people won’t use it properly (they wipe it off).

    We are using spray tops and it works as a surface applicator as well.

    I know we are a pretty clever group, but WHO really did do a lot of work to come up with this simple and elegant solution. Maybe that time,testing, and engineering are worth something?

  • Does anyone in the UK know about the legal aspects of the supply of hand sanitiser?

    I plan on making it and giving it away to local schools and other aspects of the local authority.

    I believe it comes under the Cosmetic Product Rules and Regulations.

    However, the current regulations may have been suspended.

    I'm not bothered about getting into trouble.

    Just bothered about my local school (and other schools) thinking they are not allowed to accept it.

  • Were not from the uk but when this started we were advised by our lawyer not to jump on the band wagon . His point was we are not licenced to make pharmaceuticals and we are not trained to make such products . The fact is people trust that your making a product that may affect somones life . I can gauntee i can make spirits that wont kill you but i cant guarantee i can make pharmaceuticals that will keep you from dying . My wife works in the local hospital and they have been instructed to not accept any products that are not from a licensed source , no home made concotions . I do agree that the distilleries here that have jumped on the band wagon have a great marketing tool to promote there brands , marketing has never been totally ethical . Marketing is huge when you own a distillery but i personally dont think some things should be used as marketing tool . If worse case scenario u make a product that kills or injures someone how is that a good promotion for your products that you expect people to drink .

    The other thing that should be kept in mind is all of our distilleries are designed to make alcohol , and everyone is very good at it , however there is not a alcohol shortage . Our daily capacity is 600 gallons per day the ethanol plants produce way more than that every hour . The ethanol plants have the capacity to flood the country with cheep alcohol hell they have been doing it for years .

    The plan of action that we have taken is not to risk someones life producing a product that we know nothing about . Instead we have chosen to donate finances to local charities that are in need , donations to these organizations has really dropped off as people are hanging on to there money. This to us is a safe way to help out .

    Tim

  • We have been supplying the hospitals, police departments, local businesses, etc. We are using milk jugs from local dairy, and 2oz portion cups from restaurant store. we give ours away at 80%. Been using all heads and tails but now doing molasses runs to keep up.

  • edited March 2020

    @hudsonbaydistiller

    If using the World Health Organisation formulation (think "open source") then it is pretty trivial to make. And the formulation is approved by the WHO.

    If making your own formulation, then that is a completely different kettle of fish.

    I'll be making the WHO formulation, to the letter, no deviation.

  • edited March 2020

    We're just giving away the information. I really want out local community as safe as possible, but I hope this info spreads to all communities. This stuff is safe even in eyes.

    Pandemic Sanitizing - How Do We Deal With the Coronavirus when There’s No Hand Sanitizer? @ Kelley B Arts

    Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

    my book, Making Fine Spirits

  • Every week we're too scared to help, is another opportunity for someone to die. It's better to beg for forgiveness than to beg for permission. I'll happily go to prison for saving lives.

  • @TheMechWarrior said: Every week we're too scared to help, is another opportunity for someone to die. It's better to beg for forgiveness than to beg for permission. I'll happily go to prison for saving lives.

    My thoughts exactly.

  • Appreciate your comments and we take them to heart . Today we are looking into using our packaging abilities to package bulk sanitiser . We just dont want to do anything that will put people at a greater risk . Were trying to be responsible .

    Tim

  • @hudsonbaydistiller said: The other thing that should be kept in mind is all of our distilleries are designed to make alcohol , and everyone is very good at it , however there is not a alcohol shortage . Our daily capacity is 600 gallons per day the ethanol plants produce way more than that every hour . The ethanol plants have the capacity to flood the country with cheep alcohol hell they have been doing it for years .

    I beg to differ as if this would be the case, then we should be able to just go out and buy it from the shelf.

  • As a guy who has always reveled in the variety of industrial solvents of all kinds available even in small local hardware stores, like acetone, toluene, MEK, methanol and a buncha others, are you saying all the denatured ethanol is gone from hardware stores?

    Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

    my book, Making Fine Spirits

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