Introducing myself and asking a new questions..

NastySpill

Hi Everyone! I'm the proud owner of a 4" plate still (SD of course) and with my first rum approaching completion in my fermenter I am realising there is a lot I don't know.. to even run my first distillation with confidence.

So a few questions..

I bought an Omron PID temp controller with a PT100 probe which Im going to wrangle into the 180 bend at the top of the column. But reading through posts it seems like it might be better placed before the dephlegmator....? I guess if I'm fiddling with the deph water flow then my boiler controller will be also having a fit trying to compensate. If its before my dephleg then I guess I also need a temp probe after the dephlegmator to see how much reflux is occuring??? Am I missing something obvious here?

What exactly IS the dephlegmator doing? If I have a PT100 probe and industrial PID controller driving my heater elements then is the dephleg redundant? I thought it was a way to fine tune the vapour temp leaving the column..? Is that correct?

I have a 50l rum wash almost ready to go made from molasses, water, baking yeast and some citrus. It is unclear to me if I need to carbon filter this after distillation..? Is carbon filtration only really needed on neutral spirits?

Also it seems to me that the thermowell option on the 180 should also be available for 6mm probes. There are very few commercial 4mm PT100 probes.

Thanks in advance..

Lloyd

Hi Nasty,
My advice is to make your first couple of runs without any thermometers, except maybe a thermotee on the dephlem exit water.
This will give you hands-on experience on how your still operates and you will learn so much so quickly. Do not worry in the least if you fail to produce a tasty distillate on the first try - but I bet that you will make a worthy rum if you slow down and don't get greedy with the cuts. Just keep the hearts for now and recycle the rest. You'll know the heart when you find it. It smells and tastes good - simple as that. If you mess up just put it all back into the boiler and try again.

With the hands-on experience behind you, you will be ready to modify your Dash as you see fit.

I made many, many runs on my Dash before ever using a thermometer.

As for the SD thermowell socket 4mm hole, it fits the probe of the cheapo digital thermometer and is a very low cost solution. It should not be difficult for a handyman to drill it out to 6mm. For a craftsman with access to a bit of machine oil, good quality drill bits and a drill press it would be almost too easy.

Carbon filtering is usually reserved for neutral spirit and it's not needed if you want rum.
In case you missed it, there's a Dash users manual to be found at the top of the forum's home page.

There were a lot of questions in your post and this response would take pages to address them all in depth. I feel confident in saying that after you have made a run or two most of your questions will be answered just by running the still.

Very happy you are here, and Welcome to the world of magic.

punkin

Welcome indeed NS. Oldog has said recently that he has a thermo driving his pid before and after the reflux condensor and has observed the exact same temperature on both. This means that the one after the reflux condensor is often the better position as it means that you don't have to sheild it from liquid.

You could have your pid controlling the reflux water as in OD's case, not the heating elements if you wanted more automatic control.

You need the reflux condensor to produce reflux to load the plates.

NastySpill

Thanks guys! I do like learning by doing so I'll just get into it then!

Moonshine

Don't forget to post pictures, we all like to see what's going on. Videos are appreciated as well of course. ;)

NastySpill

Hey Moonshine,
I'm taking my time getting setup, and spent the best part of a week building this cabinet with drawers. I'm calling my still "The Refluxatron"

The cupboard on the left houses the boiler. The drawers on the right house the components.
I plan to install the flow needle valves and digital temp displays onto a control panel housed in the top drawer.

Stinger

Tidy!

bentstick

You just raised the bar on the cabinets,mine looks like a child did it compared to yours! :)>-

Lloyd

@bentstick said: You just raised the bar on the cabinets,mine looks like a child did it compared to yours! :)>-

It is a beauty. And drawers to put away the distilling paraphernalia.

NastySpill

Yep all the parts for a 6 plate fit easily in the drawers, including a space for extra seals, testing equipment, cuts jars, funnels, hoses.... I'm pretty happy with the layout. Tonight I got a basic power controller installed. As you suggested Lloyd, I'm just gwan get to know this device's personality with manual control. I got a 13 amp stove controller running one 2.2kW element and the other 2.2kW is a simple on/off, which I'll kill once I approach distilling temp. I didn't pick the best spot for the power control knob....... Its under the top connector's tail. It works though.. :) Right now I'm doing a cleaning run, tomorrow I'll do my first stripping run.

Lloyd

Don't you guys just hate it when someone says, "Hey, I'm a noob..." and then quickly does something like this Still Cabinet/Refluxatron?

Gee, give this guy a couple of more weeks and the old timers will start fe adviseeling like newbies.

Personally, I much prefer Refluxatron to dephlegmator. @cooperville has the show with his Orgasmatron. Both are catchy though.

***When I was a lad, an old man offered marital advice to me, saying, "Boy, when the time comes, choose a big, fat strong woman. One that can keep you warm on a cold winter night and pull a plow if you don't have a mule. Mine's named Ethel." he said.

I never took his advice but somehow, as a tribute to the old gentleman, I'd like to find something to name Ethelatron. Maybe a big ole boiler should I ever get one.

NastySpill

Thanks for the kind words.. But just because I know how to whack together drawers and a cabinet, DOES NOT mean I know how to distil, so I humbly welcome all assistance with the real business of distilling. And likewise I can help where I can. :)

"Ethelamus... the big ole' boiler." (like hippopotamus)

Lloyd

Haha, maybe you are right. The old girl don't need to be too sexy :)) Just an ole workhorse after all, right? With luck she has a pretty sister!

Anyone that can whack together a cabinet like that has the brains to quickly catch on to stillin'.

punkin

It looks fantastic, leave room in the drawers for a future Gin Basket :))

I bet you find you leave both elements on and control one with your controller. The bubble columns seem to work best from 2400 to 4000 watts by all accounts.

Top setup. Is it on castors?

Law_Of_Ohms

@NastySpill where did you get that yellow profile? !!!!

It looks like Intermas W profile. infact im sure it is....

CothermanDistilling

Hmmm.. I wonder if there is a market for @Lloyd to have someone like Grand Hall (makes nice stainless grills for Sam's Club, etc) to make the 'Stilldragon Dash 2 cabinet...' I have 2 of the really big ones, was going to make one into a home brewing cabinet, but too many projects... Picture this, without the grill part: Y0660 Member's Mark Grill

Smaug

@CothermanDistilling said: Hmmm.. I wonder if there is a market for Lloyd to have someone like Grand Hall (makes nice stainless grills for Sam's Club, etc) to make the 'Stilldragon Dash 2 cabinet...' I have 2 of the really big ones, was going to make one into a home brewing cabinet, but too many projects... Picture this, without the grill part: Y0660 Member's Mark Grill

That is a pretty sweet idea and really pretty much what the fellas are already essentially doing. Would make a very complete and polished recipe development work station.

Philter

Welcome, & great work looking 'stillin cabinet @NastySpill.

What program are you running on the PC screen in the background of your second photo. Is it for distilling control?

@CothermanDistilling said: Picture this, without the grill part: Y0660 Member's Mark Grill

Great idea, as whole stainless steel BBQ cabinets seem quite cheap compared to the cost of making it yourself out of sheet.

Don't forget the "Slap Ya Mama Seasoning" :))

bentstick

@ Nasty, Dude you in the states close to Mich,I could use a cabinet builder like yourself,we do custom homes and you would be a ace in the the hole,I make cabinets for lots of homes and that is TITS in my book! :)>-

NastySpill

@punkin said: It looks fantastic, leave room in the drawers for a future Gin Basket :))

I bet you find you leave both elements on and control one with your controller. The bubble columns seem to work best from 2400 to 4000 watts by all accounts.

Top setup. Is it on castors?

It'd not on castors yet. It will be though. And yes there is juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust enough room to squeeze in a gin basket. :)

NastySpill

@bentstick said: @ Nasty, Dude you in the states close to Mich,I could use a cabinet builder like yourself,we do custom homes and you would be a ace in the the hole,I make cabinets for lots of homes and that is TITS in my book! :)>-

Sorry benstick, I'm not in the States. Thanks for the work offer!

NastySpill

@Philter said: Welcome, & great work looking 'stillin cabinet NastySpill.

What program are you running on the PC screen in the background of your second photo. Is it for distilling control?

Very eagle eyed Philter. The program is MACH3 which runs my homebuilt CNC router. That's what I used to build the cabinets. You might understand now why I have control issues... I LOVE TO automate and control things..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKcOlxT_4BQ

I might look at designing cabinet kit if people are interested.... I used film faced form ply for my panels and @law_of_ohms an old electrical cabinet was used for the steel chassis. Im not sure what the profile is, but it was a major headache to deal with because I didnt know what it was. An aluminium extrusion would be and easier way to go in future.

Law_Of_Ohms

Only reason I asked was the company I work for imports that exact profile, I work with it every day.

Law_Of_Ohms

Castors should be easy, there is a 12mm tapped hole in the corner pieces.

NastySpill

Yeah wrong corner though. The old enclosure that I've repurposed stood on its end.. Portrait, so the holes are left an right, not top bottom.

NastySpill

would have been perfect!!

rossco

You blokes are a crack up.

Moonshine

The SD Workstation <<< Lovin it! :)

crozdog

@NastySpill said: Hi Everyone!

Welcome

I'm the proud owner of a 4" plate still (SD of course) and with my first rum approaching completion in my fermenter I am realising there is a lot I don't know.. to even run my first distillation with confidence. you're gunna have a lot of fun believe me

So a few questions..

I bought an Omron PID temp controller with a PT100 probe which Im going to wrangle into the 180 bend at the top of the column. But reading through posts it seems like it might be better placed before the dephlegmator....? I guess if I'm fiddling with the deph water flow then my boiler controller will be also having a fit trying to compensate. If its before my dephleg then I guess I also need a temp probe after the dephlegmator to see how much reflux is occuring??? Am I missing something obvious here?

It really depends what & how you are trying to control.... coolant flow? heat input? Many have previously discovered issues with trying to control the heat applied as the alcohol concentration in the boiler varies over a run. However others have had success controlling the output by using the PID to adjust the flow through the dephleg.

What exactly IS the dephlegmator doing? If I have a PT100 probe and industrial PID controller driving my heater elements then is the dephleg redundant? I thought it was a way to fine tune the vapour temp leaving the column..? Is that correct?

no. sorry. the Dash series are what is known as cooling management stills (CM for short). Other control mechanisms are vapour management (VM) and liquid management (LM) Basically on a CM still the amount of output is controlled by adjusting the coolant. More coolant flow = less output. So back to your question.... a dephleg is a tube in shell condensor that is used to adjust the amount of reflux ie less reflux (achieved by lower coolant flow) = more output.

By knowing how distillation works for a particular wash you can control the dephleg by using a PID to control the flow based on temp (coolant or vapour)

I have a 50l rum wash almost ready to go made from molasses, water, baking yeast and some citrus. It is unclear to me if I need to carbon filter this after distillation..? Is carbon filtration only really needed on neutral spirits?

Have a read of the manual available at https://manuals.StillDragon.org it will answer a lot of questions (hopefully ;-) ) and if you are trying to make a dark rum, carbon filtering is definitely not needed

Also it seems to me that the thermowell option on the 180 should also be available for 6mm probes. There are very few commercial 4mm PT100 probes.

Thanks in advance..

No prob

Law_Of_Ohms

You should be able to unsrew the gusset, knock out the corner with a mallet and rotate it to suite castor direction, i'll take a pic of one tomorrow at work

CothermanDistilling

I want a home built router!