@grim said:
You can imagine, vapor very quickly moving into the expansion chamber, slowing as it enters an area of larger volume, then immediately being subjected to pushes and pulls of flash vapor condensation on the walls, and then finally being pushed straight through the top. It's probably much more chaotic than the vapor droplets would indicate. Each time you have flash condensation, little vortices would form, and together, these vortices would add up to motion.
This makes a lot of sense. Made me think about the laws of conservation of energy:
For a simple open system (in which mass may be exchanged with the environment), containing a single type of particle, the first law is written:[11]
\mathrm{d}U = \delta Q - \delta W + u'\,dM,\,
where dM is the added mass and u' is the internal energy per unit mass of the added mass. The addition of mass may be accompanied by a volume change which is not associated with work (e.g. for a liquid-vapor system, the volume of the vapor system may increase due to volume lost by the evaporating liquid). In the reversible case, the work will be given by \delta W=-P(dV-v\,dM) where v is the specific volume of the added mass.
When mass changes from one state to another, a loss of energy is mandatory. That energy would have to go somewhere and creating a vacuum of sorts sounds very logical.
Anyway, I realize this is just one way to skin a a cat. I have often thought how it could be applied to the home distiller. A series of tri clamp expansions and reducers from 4 to 8 inches and then back down again would be similar, but I don't think the cost would justify the gains.
You have your dephlegmator set atop the torpedo, I think that is brilliant. Would work much the same creating that pre-reflux so your copper actually has some alcohol to bond with.
I think for the home distiller another good option would be to invest in a 4 to 6 inch tri clamp expansion, a 24" 6 inch spool, another reducer, and then a 4 inch 4 plate column. The 24" height and the 6 inch expansion proportionally (roughly) making up for the desired surface area. I would think that would only be about 100-120 bucks where more plate sections run close to $350.00.
This might save you from having to throttle your dephlegmator or just add more plates which can be expensive and rob you of flavor.
@Brandedhearts said:
That energy would have to go somewhere and creating a vacuum of sorts sounds very logical.
The energy is absorbed by the metal of the bell and is radiated into the environment surrounding the outside surface of the metal, and carried away by convection currents caused by contact between the metal's outer surface and the surrounding air.
Putting a deflegmator over a torpedo at the base of the column is an interesting configurational idea. I have the parts on hand to give that a try.
Hmmmm....
I recently bought a 4" deflegmator and figured my 2" Big Baby defleg would end up spending most of the time sitting idle on the shelf.
I had a sugar wash I stripped yesterday, I was tempted to try it with the torpedo and big baby under the column, but unfortunately I didn't have enough time to experiment, I'll try and get it setup for next weekend
@Anavrin said:
I had a sugar wash I stripped yesterday, I was tempted to try it with the torpedo and big baby under the column, but unfortunately I didn't have enough time to experiment, I'll try and get it setup for next weekend
You likely would have saved time with that set up.
Yeah, we had freinds coming round, and it was getting late, plus my Baby CD needed cleaning,
I did find a fairly quick way of cleaning the pro-caps / plates without taking it apart, I fitted a cap on one end and filled it with a solution of water and citric acid for 10mins before rinsing it out, looks brand new again :-)
Just added another 3 plates to my Baby CD, making 6 in total, I've also added adjustable downcomer extensions and bent the flow directors to catch any drips coming off the bottom nut on the procaps.
@Anavrin said:
Just added another 3 plates to my Baby CD, making 6 in total, I've also added adjustable downcomer extensions and bent the flow directors to catch any drips coming off the bottom nut on the procaps.
Photos please (that's the SHOW part in Show us Your Dragon)! ;)
Your Place to be >>> www.StillDragon.org <<< Home of the StillDragon® Community Forum
I had some trouble taking the pic for that post, my iPhone menory was full, there's one in the next post, unfortunately I can't upload a video from my phone :-(
@Anavrin said:
I had some trouble taking the pic for that post, my iPhone menory was full, there's one in the next post, unfortunately I can't upload a video from my phone :-(
You can't upload videos directly to the forum, that's better done to YouTube and then posting just the link to the video here which makes it auto-embed. If not having your own YouTube account or you don't want to use it for that, you can also make the video file available to me (if you have the possibility to upload it somewhere from where I can grab it) and I'll publish it in our StillDragon® Community YouTube Channel if you like.
For reference, I have cross-posted an enlarged section of your photo showing your flow director solution to our Cleaning run Ace of Hearts - Observations, Questions discussion. Please comment your observations on catching the reflux there.
Your Place to be >>> www.StillDragon.org <<< Home of the StillDragon® Community Forum
@Anavrin - Just one comment on the flow director alignment in the photo you posted just above. Be careful that the flow director is not making any contact with the downcomer funnel. I'm not sure if they are actually touching, or if it's just the perspective of the photo posted. If they are touching, you will lose a significant portion of the reflux straight down into the funnel. The reflux flowing down the outer edge is going to transfer right to that lip and go down the drain.
The flow directors were not touching to start with but seem to have straightened out a little with the heat, maybe they need to be bent then annealed so they keep their shape.
this is our 10 plate, 8" column and seperate 400L pot, this has 2 elements total 27kw, just finished welding the pipes. so will be testing it this week
@marcus said:
this is our 10 plate, 8" column and seperate 400L pot, this has 2 elements total 27kw, just finished welding the pipes. so will be testing it this week
@marcus, that is a nice setup. I may add on to my system in a similar manner when it is time. I love the fact you can just change the knobs and run it like a pot still or run a neutral. Very efficient and likely a rapid heat up time.
Nice looking setup, but!
You might find you need to add some kind of return from the botton of the column back into the boiler, the reflux return down to column needs to go back into the boiler, if it has no where to go it will flood your column.
I know it's 8" which is far bigger than I run, and I can just about possibly imagine a finely balanced setup that might have just enough power / reflux ratio to negate the need but I think this setup as pictured will be impracticle in real life without some kind of return to the boiler.
Comments
This makes a lot of sense. Made me think about the laws of conservation of energy:
For a simple open system (in which mass may be exchanged with the environment), containing a single type of particle, the first law is written:[11]
where
dM
is the added mass andu'
is the internal energy per unit mass of the added mass. The addition of mass may be accompanied by a volume change which is not associated with work (e.g. for a liquid-vapor system, the volume of the vapor system may increase due to volume lost by the evaporating liquid). In the reversible case, the work will be given by\delta W=-P(dV-v\,dM)
wherev
is the specific volume of the added mass.When mass changes from one state to another, a loss of energy is mandatory. That energy would have to go somewhere and creating a vacuum of sorts sounds very logical.
@grim thank you for the enlightenment.
Thanks for having me!
Anyway, I realize this is just one way to skin a a cat. I have often thought how it could be applied to the home distiller. A series of tri clamp expansions and reducers from 4 to 8 inches and then back down again would be similar, but I don't think the cost would justify the gains.
@Anavrin:
You have your dephlegmator set atop the torpedo, I think that is brilliant. Would work much the same creating that pre-reflux so your copper actually has some alcohol to bond with.
I think for the home distiller another good option would be to invest in a 4 to 6 inch tri clamp expansion, a 24" 6 inch spool, another reducer, and then a 4 inch 4 plate column. The 24" height and the 6 inch expansion proportionally (roughly) making up for the desired surface area. I would think that would only be about 100-120 bucks where more plate sections run close to $350.00.
This might save you from having to throttle your dephlegmator or just add more plates which can be expensive and rob you of flavor.
Only use where legal of course......
16 reasearch students and not one figured out that plastic casters on a bbq smoker could be problematic?
That's what happens when business majors attempt engineering design projects...
I'm more like I am now than I was before.
The energy is absorbed by the metal of the bell and is radiated into the environment surrounding the outside surface of the metal, and carried away by convection currents caused by contact between the metal's outer surface and the surrounding air.
I'm more like I am now than I was before.
Putting a deflegmator over a torpedo at the base of the column is an interesting configurational idea. I have the parts on hand to give that a try.
Hmmmm....
I recently bought a 4" deflegmator and figured my 2" Big Baby defleg would end up spending most of the time sitting idle on the shelf.
I'm more like I am now than I was before.
I had a sugar wash I stripped yesterday, I was tempted to try it with the torpedo and big baby under the column, but unfortunately I didn't have enough time to experiment, I'll try and get it setup for next weekend
You likely would have saved time with that set up.
StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America
Yeah, we had freinds coming round, and it was getting late, plus my Baby CD needed cleaning,
I did find a fairly quick way of cleaning the pro-caps / plates without taking it apart, I fitted a cap on one end and filled it with a solution of water and citric acid for 10mins before rinsing it out, looks brand new again :-)
The patina that builds up on the copper is a desirable passivation layer. I'm not so sure removing it often with citric acid is a good thing.
I'm more like I am now than I was before.
To back up what Kapea just said, think about how often the commercial distillers acid wash their rigs...
OOPS its a blue moon... :D
Just added another 3 plates to my Baby CD, making 6 in total, I've also added adjustable downcomer extensions and bent the flow directors to catch any drips coming off the bottom nut on the procaps.
Here's a pic, a few glass sections are misty as the still warming up, I'll post a video when it's running
Photos please (that's the SHOW part in Show us Your Dragon)! ;)
Your Place to be >>> www.StillDragon.org <<< Home of the StillDragon® Community Forum
I had some trouble taking the pic for that post, my iPhone menory was full, there's one in the next post, unfortunately I can't upload a video from my phone :-(
You can't upload videos directly to the forum, that's better done to YouTube and then posting just the link to the video here which makes it auto-embed. If not having your own YouTube account or you don't want to use it for that, you can also make the video file available to me (if you have the possibility to upload it somewhere from where I can grab it) and I'll publish it in our StillDragon® Community YouTube Channel if you like.
For reference, I have cross-posted an enlarged section of your photo showing your flow director solution to our Cleaning run Ace of Hearts - Observations, Questions discussion. Please comment your observations on catching the reflux there.
Your Place to be >>> www.StillDragon.org <<< Home of the StillDragon® Community Forum
@Anavrin - Just one comment on the flow director alignment in the photo you posted just above. Be careful that the flow director is not making any contact with the downcomer funnel. I'm not sure if they are actually touching, or if it's just the perspective of the photo posted. If they are touching, you will lose a significant portion of the reflux straight down into the funnel. The reflux flowing down the outer edge is going to transfer right to that lip and go down the drain.
@grim
The flow directors were not touching to start with but seem to have straightened out a little with the heat, maybe they need to be bent then annealed so they keep their shape.
Here is my dragon ;-)
Article in the Tampa Tribune
Print version has another pic
Awesome article. Nice shot of the Dragon as well
Damn that is an awesome picture
Great stuff. I like that Larrys Monday Tuesday idea got a mention. :D
StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand
this is our 10 plate, 8" column and seperate 400L pot, this has 2 elements total 27kw, just finished welding the pipes. so will be testing it this week
Coles Family Brewers - Est. 1999 - The Best Pub In Wales
Sweet rig @marcus.
Smaug's new pet Dragon!
OR maybe this one is @Smaug's
wow.
StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America
@marcus, that is a nice setup. I may add on to my system in a similar manner when it is time. I love the fact you can just change the knobs and run it like a pot still or run a neutral. Very efficient and likely a rapid heat up time.
@marcus
Nice looking setup, but! You might find you need to add some kind of return from the botton of the column back into the boiler, the reflux return down to column needs to go back into the boiler, if it has no where to go it will flood your column.
I know it's 8" which is far bigger than I run, and I can just about possibly imagine a finely balanced setup that might have just enough power / reflux ratio to negate the need but I think this setup as pictured will be impracticle in real life without some kind of return to the boiler.
@FullySilenced Nice Dragon Tits :-)