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Yeast SAFSPIRIT M1

edited September 28 in General

Anyone use this yeast for whiskey? Is it any good? I just found a new supplier that has it in BA and I was going to buy some. I have been using EC118 which has been working very nicely.

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  • We're using Red Star bread yeast, very liberally pitched in our malt whiskies, and I'm very happy with both fermentation rate and ester profile. I'm also an EC-1118 fan, but just not for whiskies.

    Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

    my book, Making Fine Spirits

  • @zymurgybob you have inspired me I think in my next few runs I am going to get some bread yeast and give that a whirl. Time to do some more experiments.

  • I did a bread yeast ferment a few weeks ago. In 200l I pitched like 500-1000g. It was ridiculous overpitch. (FYI 500g fine). Cool thing is that you don’t have to address yeast reproduction to any real extent. It just rocks out and does work.

    I found results to be cLeaner when kept under 25c.

    It’s actually a quick cheap and dirty way to make booze. With a little tweaking it doesn’t even have to taste bad. Either.

  • Wow. I just checked and I can get bread yeast at US$1.2 for 500grams. Thats a lot cheaper than using expensive yeast.
    I am going to get some and try it. My issue right now is keeping my temps under 25 deg C. Anyway thanks for the feedback.

  • Many bread yeasts are propagated on molasses base.

  • For M1 - I really like it. Lots of esters. Similar to US05.

    I have no issues with Red Star - my issue is when commercial people only use bread yeast for different products. It doesn't offer much flavor differential between products. I get that it works well and is cheap, but if you give me a bunch of whiskeys that taste nearly the same I'm not very motivated to buy more than one bottle.

  • edited October 2

    We’ve found that the wonderful ester profiles of yeasts like Nottingham, US05 - English ale classes - don’t stand the test of time.

    Between years 1 and 2 of aging - a good portion of these flavors start to disappear. By year 3 they are all but gone.

  • edited October 2

    Thanks @SingleMaltYinzer. I just ordered a couple of bags of the M1. So as soon as it gets here and I am where my house is I will do some runs. I will do a couple with Bread yeast. I have no problem with short term duration esters for the product you want to make and sell quickly like an Irish whiskey.

  • My interest in bread yeast for whiskies was helped along by an article I read that indicated that yeast decomposition compounds created/released during distillation were important whiskey flavor notes, and that seems to be the case for us. Of course, being an un-repentent potstiller, a lot of yeast trub goes into the still.

    Fleischmann's bread yeast did not give us results as good as Ref Star, so not all bread yeasts are created equal.

    Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

    my book, Making Fine Spirits

  • I found that some bread yeast from China seemed to work ok. I tried a bunch of different one from cheapest to expensive. Was a mixed bag.

    @grim considering the flavor profiles I got from the bread yeasts the molasses thing doesn’t surprise me. I’d bet you could make a nice light rum with some effort.

    I did a different ferment test with a bread yeast two weeks ago and my notes were that it had some potential for a neutral. Kind of a fluke but who knows. Maybe it’ll turn into a cheap vodka or neutral for blending.

  • @DonMateo said: Wow. I just checked and I can get bread yeast at US$1.2 for 500grams. Thats a lot cheaper than using expensive yeast.
    I am going to get some and try it. My issue right now is keeping my temps under 25 deg C. Anyway thanks for the feedback.

    My go to neutral yeast right now is $110usd/kg to my door. It makes that $4usd/kg bread yeast look pretty good.

    That said, that expensive yeast sure is nice stuff and solves some key problems.

    Also the bread yeast still does kind of ok between 25- 29c.

    You are kinda in the same situation as me with limited access to these sorts of things. I did something like 24-30 ferments a month before I got to a recipe I kinda like using mostly locally available ingredients and it wasn’t anywhere near where I started (TPW). Now I still need some imported stuff but costs are under control at least and imports could be bi-annual or quarterly.

  • @grim said: We’ve found that the wonderful ester profiles of yeasts like Nottingham, US05 - English ale classes - don’t stand the test of time.

    Between years 1 and 2 of aging - a good portion of these flavors start to disappear. By year 3 they are all but gone.

    I wonder why that is. It doesn't seem like it should happen to that degree. If anything esters should increase. And they might - but it might be ones that aren't as perceptible. Interesting - I'll have to add that to my list things to test out.

  • Ethyl Acetate increases - keep in mind there are two pathways for acetic acid formation in aging. Oxidation of ethanol (and acetaldehyde) and decomposition of wood. Increase acetic acid and you’ll form esters with the most common alcohol, ethanol.

    The other favor to consider is volatility and evaporation of the simple, highly volatile esters - most of what we are talking about.

  • Thanks for all the comments. This board is great. Well I am just running my latest run with EC118. And it smells and tastes great. I love distilling. Sadly I have to shut everything down and go to Peru for 3 months. Capitalism is a terrible thing. But I will be able to pay for my tasting room after this.

  • @zymurgybob said: We're using Red Star bread yeast, very liberally pitched in our malt whiskies, and I'm very happy with both fermentation rate and ester profile. I'm also an EC-1118 fan, but just not for whiskies.

    Same here with the red star... great in both rum and whiskey for us, now on to D022 for rum for a while, but likely will switch back to compare again now that our processes have change to get a good handle on them before trying more new ones.. we have tried with others and will try more, they are all a bit different, and 'better' is very subjective..

  • Hey guys. I have a question when you throw in a lot of bread yeast does that make the wash ferment out faster, because there are lots and lots more yeasties, because its cheap and you load it up. I assume the answer is yes but I am just curious and already bored starting this job. I would rather be fermenting and distilling. Bugger.

  • Over pitching generally results in a cleaner and faster ferment, but the real world impact is arguable. Probably less of an impact than we would want to believe there is.

  • It helped me a lot, but maybe it was 'right pitching', not 'over-pitching...' I get 24 hour ferment, and less pH drop when I did 5grams in 5L(stirplate)-->50L(small recirc pump)-->500L(small pump)--> 1000L(top off with pump going)

    To us, it is like magic... I have even scaled citric acid and ammonium sulfate back to 0.3% from 0.5% with no noticeable effect...

  • I keep a yeast bank of fancy yeasts I've collected through the years. I use them for beer and mead. It's worth stepping them up for beverages to be drunk at the fermented beverage stage. Huge differences in flavor profiles.

    My go-to distilling yeast is Red Star (not the USSR) Active Dry Yeast. US$4.49/2lb brick at Costco. Always super fresh dry yeast. All I do is rehydrate da little buggahs before I pitch them.

    I'm more like I am now than I was before.

  • @DonMateo said: Hey guys. I have a question when you throw in a lot of bread yeast does that make the wash ferment out faster, because there are lots and lots more yeasties, because its cheap and you load it up. I assume the answer is yes but I am just curious and already bored starting this job. I would rather be fermenting and distilling. Bugger.

    IME I had put 1000g into a 200l tank. Yeah it went pretty fast. No real lag/growth phase and lots of heat. I halved it to 500g later on another test with a similar result tho.

    My ferments typically take 7-8 days now with a typical “good yeast” pitch being only 50g. That massive pitch took 4 days.

  • Thanks mate. My last two ferments i upped my pitch rate from 30 to 100grams on 200l and hydrated well and got a great ferment. 6.5% after 5 days. Which is a record for me. I had to run them at 5 days as i was traveling. Thanks again for the responses.

  • We pitch one handful ( ~1/3/cup) Red Star bread yeast into 87 l of 19-20 Brix all-barley-malt wort at initial temp of ~84F, and leaving that ferment unheated (or cooled) at our mild summer temps, we're fermented to .996 in less than 4 days.

    Fastest ferment I've ever seen, and it tastes and smells great.

    Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

    my book, Making Fine Spirits

  • @zymurgybob Your my hero mate. I am getting my hands on some bread yeast right now.

  • Oh great! Now it'll take two weeks and taste like turds, and nobody will ever take my word again. :))

    Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

    my book, Making Fine Spirits

  • Seriously, keep us posted.

    Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

    my book, Making Fine Spirits

  • Well mate I am away from my house on a job in Peru for 3 months so its going to take a while before I can get back into distilling.

  • Well if anyone wants me to try some test ferment let me know. I may be able to squeeze it into the production runs.

    Rules are:

    • I can’t mash grain
    • I’m limited on yeasts but do have 5 or so available.
    • sugar bases are easy
    • it may end up as a neutral in the end.

    I’m game to play tho. You can live vicariously thru me

  • I would love to live vicariously through you. How about posting a picture from a beach in Fiji with some girls in Bikinis. I am sure I wont be the only one to enjoy the view.

  • I can do that from here if you like.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • Maybe Punkin can help on that one. I’m not anywhere near a beach these days. Lol

    When I was the bikini fare wasn’t worth lookin at.

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