100L Milk Can Heating Element UK

Good morning all, new to this forum and first post!

Following some trial and quite a large error using a copper still we have recently upgraded to a StillDragon still for Gin production. Can anyone in the UK - or anywhere else - advise of the best place to purchase the required heating elements for a 100l Milk Can Boiler? We have searched everywhere but can't seem to find something that suits.

We are also after a PID to control and regulate the temperature of the heating so any advice on that would also be appreciated. Look forward to hearing from you all and getting involved in the forum!

Thanks in advance.

Stockport Gin www.stockport-gin.com t/i - @stockportgin F - /stockportginltd

Comments

  • Cut-and-paste from a response in another thread: Camco 02965 5500W ULW brewers element; or 02964 (same but different package); or 02954 4500W.

    Camco 02964 Stainless Steel 5500W 240V Screw-in Lime Life Ripple Water Heater Element-Ultra Low Watt Density @ Amazon

    for example

    You DO NOT WANT a PID to control the heating! You need a stepless power controller, look for "AC110-220V 10000W SCR Voltage Regulator Motor Speed Controller Dimmer Thermostat" on Ebay for a very easy option.

  • PID control for a boiler is useless as you’re at boiling point. What you want is an Auber DSPR220 or similar to control heat input. Not sure if they ship internationally though.

    Search this forum for sources on heating element as that question comes up often

  • edited March 5

    Here is an example of a SSR power controller. This one is from the continuous still that I am doing.

    Something that is real interesting and important to note is ..... at zero input (4mA in my case), you still have a small amount of voltage going through to the element. It is for this reason, that you always run this through an isolation switch / contactor with coil when not in use.

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  • @Unsensibel said: PID control for a boiler is useless as you’re at boiling point. What you want is an Auber DSPR220 or similar to control heat input. Not sure if they ship internationally though.

    Search this forum for sources on heating element as that question comes up often

    Auber are great to deal with from the UK, have dealt with them for several years, great service and prices

  • All,

    Thanks for all of your comments...seems like i have a lot more work to do than i first thought on this! From what i can gather there is no 'plug and play' system available for this? its a case of buying the individual parts and wiring them all together to work effectively and more importantly, safely! presume i'd need an electrician too?!

    Looking at the suggestions above i'm struggling to source some of these parts in the UK, they mainly seem to come from America.

    And i assume the power controller is used to regulate the power to the element and allows you to control how hot it gets and to avoid boiling the hell out of whats in the kettle!

    Stockport Gin www.stockport-gin.com t/i - @stockportgin F - /stockportginltd

  • @StockportGin AFAIK the Camco elements found on Amazon are suitable for use in Europe and are shipped worldwide. As for a simply controller that would be the

    DIY Controller Kit @ StillDragon Europe

    See the build instructions here (PDF). Any other ready made controllers, like a typical brew controller, would be suitable as well.

    Your Place to be >>> www.StillDragon.org <<< Home of the StillDragon® Community Forum

  • Thanks @Moonshine appreciate it. Might need to add the controller to my recent order i think!

    Apologies for any ignorance, i am right in thinking the controller is to regulate the temperature of the heating element?

    Stockport Gin www.stockport-gin.com t/i - @stockportgin F - /stockportginltd

  • It regulates the power to the elements mate. So you have your boil at a temperature controlled by the composition of the wash, then you control the vigour of that boil (and the amount of vapour given off) with the controller.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • How many times have you had to recite this, @punkin, and you still don't sound snarky? I've done it so often that I'm pretty sure I sound like an asshole every time. This misconception is probably the biggest single thing that drove me to write the damned book.

    Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

    my book, Making Fine Spirits

  • If you have a US Units calculator that does weight calculations, it likely uses a lookup table...

    I found an error(or three) in LiquorProofer ,I think the developer used OCR to pull the data from the charts. The error is at 56 proof and 60f... to find it, do a test of a given weight 55 proof and at 57 proof at use 60f

    55 proof is 12.40gal/100lbs 57 proof is 12.42gal/100lbs

    Then, look at 56 proof: 56 proof is 12.05gal/100lbs... and all the interpolated values 55.1 to 56.9 are proportionally off...

    Regarding the temp axis, 56 proof at 55F and 65F are 12.52 and 12.39 respectively, so I guess found the needle in the haystack one day while doing a stripping run...

  • edited March 8

    Speaking heating elements. Just received my 6 KW 230/400 VAC all stainless steel heating elements. Super ULD watt density at 3.5 watts/cm2.

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  • Get a controller form the guvnors as it will save you a lot of heartaches and the instruction on the website are clear as poiten: DIY Controller Kit @ StillDragon Europe

    My Camco 5500W heating element came from the {link removed} within 7 days of purchase.

    Edited by @Moonshine: Posting links to competitors is against our forum rules. Camco heating elements can be bought on Amazon.

  • Good evening to all New to the forum and have been searching for a thread relating to this question but have not found anything...so here goes in regards a 380L DD Bain Marie w/ 6 element ports. Our understanding is due to it's location close to the floor the connection into the element guard should be Class 1 Division 2. However, I see no forum threads to this effect nor possible sources for fittings. Same question for agitator service cord.
    Which leads me to the second question...if the weep hole is there to allow water out then ethanol vapor can certainly enter and would be directly exposed to electrical connections.
    If I am missing something and being a total knucklehead please be kind..otherwise we are just looking to be safe and correct so experienced, knowledgeable advice would be great.

  • edited March 14

    My take on this is ... The fact that the element is in the jacket and not product, I would agree on Class I Div II. Area around still and how far away is "subjective to interpretation" but generally 5 foot / 1.5m appears to be the figure thown around.. How far above the ground I have seen figures 500mm to 900 mm. The area around the still is Class I division II.

    No weep hole is allowed in the elecrical box / connector.

    The electrical element needs to be directly earthed. General elements (e.g. Camco) have no earthing connector so you ought make provision for this.

    For info .... and this is not approved as I am still doing homework for further discussions.

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  • edited March 14

    The origin of the design did not really factor in the XP requirements.

    You can seal up the weep hole with silicone. Can even fill the entire interior space with silicone for good measure.

    Use a high pressure clamp to get yourself into NEMA classification.

    To make the NEMA standard for the XP agitator motor, you'll have to hard pipe (which sucks for service/maintenance) with liquid tight fittings.

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • edited March 14

    It's arguable that any floor area in the production area could be Class I Division 2 due to the potential of a spill from portable tanks, pumps, or hoses.

    Which means, anything under 3 feet of any floor area is subject to classification rules. Anywhere you do filling, proofing, bottling, processing, storage, walking with a container in your hand, etc. The 25' distance doesn't apply only to fixed equip.

    Easy way around this is to ensure any electrics are at least 5 foot off the floor, everywhere. This accounts, somewhat, for any pump or hose that you might run.

  • @Smaug said: To make the NEMA standard for the XP agitator motor, you'll have to hard pipe (which sucks for service/maintenance) with liquid tight fittings.

    This was mentioned to me as well BUT I can not see it applicable / reasonable as the agitator is is Class I division II area.

    Does not mean that it is right but I have not seen many doing this with respect to the agitator. Again I thik it is one of those items subject to interpretation and further is way off the ground.

  • edited March 14

    You can argue that the agitator is exposed to the inside of the still, which is class 1 division 1.

    You could argue for a failure mode where seals failing would expose the motor and piping to become a channel for vapor to travel through.

    Meaning liquid tight fittings cause a problem, not a solution.

    Explosion proof fittings are not air tight - common misconception - however explosion proof conduit does require sealing glands to prevent the conduit from passing vapor.

  • @grim said: You can argue that the agitator is exposed to the inside of the still, which is class 1 division 1.

    You could argue for a failure mode where seals failing would expose the motor and piping to become a channel for vapor to travel through.

    Meaning liquid tight fittings cause a problem, not a solution.

    Explosion proof fittings are not air tight - common misconception - however explosion proof conduit does require sealing glands to prevent the conduit from passing vapor.

    Sure, "Glands" is what I was referring to.

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

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