Basic Maths Calculation Question

needmorstuff

I know what you mean.. I just need to find them! I am happy to leave artisan flavour extraction to someone else and work with an excellent partner.

The artisan in me thinks I should be squashing cherries between my toes and filtering the infusion with egyptian cotton but in reality it's all about the consumer. If they are happy with the product that's all that is required.

I do want to make the very best product i can and we are trying to be organic also.. the GNS is organic as are all our botanicals so we have a real drive to being as pure as we can.

The flavour choices aren't that many - I have had some apparent organic extract from olive nation that was terribly synthetic.

I have tried organic cherry concentrate - that didnt impart enough flavour. I am also trying foodie flavours natural cherry flavour also.. whilst that does have enough flavour and isnt synthetic it is just over the edge in terms of affordability.

punkin

I agree, also although as a small producer you have to sell the story as much as the product, the danger is you start believing the story is more important than the product.

needmorstuff

@punkin said: I agree, also although as a small producer you have to sell the story as much as the product, the danger is you start believing the story is more important than the product.

this is an excellent point

You could have the best most heart warming story in the world but if it tastes like pond water nobody will buy more than 1 bottle/drink.

similarly WE chose to go organic.. about 1 in 3 people i ask cares about organic.

Kapea

DDT and sarin are organic...

grim

Look for flavors that are made specifically for alcoholic beverages, don't bother with artificial, use only natural (remember, artificial flavors usually require label disclosure as such - we can afford the real stuff).

Typically, those PG flavors you see, they are HUGELY common now, in small quantity (which is attractive), because of people who are making their own vaping fluid. These flavors tend to be very high in PG - it's the PG that makes the "smoke".

Put an alcohol based flavor in a vape pen, you are probably in for a bad time.

There are a number of "flavors" where DIY is just plain easier. Vanilla, Cinnamon, Star Anise, Citrus, just off the top of my head - I think you'd be silly to buy these unless you are looking for bulletproof consistency, or something a little bit atypical (deterp/folded citrus). These are simple, one dimensional, easy to extract flavors.

Other flavors, Jalapeño or other peppers, lighter flavored vegetables - you can make your own, but you are going to need a rotovap. Depending on how strict your labeling authority is, you still might need label disclosure even though you made the flavor yourself - "contains natural flavors". At this point, you are doing exactly the same thing the flavor house is doing, just on a smaller scale.

needmorstuff

How is the extraction achieved, I tried with rhubarb a few months ago by boiling, straining and reducing and it wasn't great. Not much flavour and plenty of sediment.

Homebrew

I too am curious about how infusing post-distillation affects proof (ABV).

I have just experimented with fresh strawberries and fresh basil in all rounder dry gin I distilled myself.

I infused it for a week, just filtered it tonight.

It's still pretty dry, miles away from a liqueur style (by design), and around 42% ABV.

How do you accurately measure ABV when there is fructose in it from the fruit?

Homebrew

@grim said: Don’t poo poo all the flavor houses in one fell swoop.

I know what you mean, but this is like when I went to view furniture and the furniture salesman showed me a veneer table (photocopy of wood pattern on top of some random wood) and then proceeded to tell me that this actually requires more labour than solid wood.

At which I replied "it's fake wood, and I want the real thing".

katmar

@Homebrew said: How do you accurately measure ABV when there is fructose in it from the fruit?

You start with a known volume, and then distill it until the distillate contains all the alcohol that was in the original sample but none of the sugar. You then make up the distillate to the original volume with water. You now have all of alcohol in the the same volume of spirit - which means that the ABV is the same and can easily be measured with a standard hydrometer/alcometer.

The TTB has posted a series of videos describing this. See Parts 3 and 4 at

Distilled Spirits - Frequently Used Proofing Processes @ TTB

The TTB procedure needs to be modified if the sugar level is very high:

Lab distillation of very high-solids liqueurs @ ADI Forums

If you do not have the equipment to do this distillation test you can measure the sugar level using a simple evaporation and then combine that with the SG of the original sample to calculate the ABV:

Mass and Volume-Based Concentration Conversions for Sugar and Alcohol @ Katmar Software

CothermanDistilling

@needmorstuff said: i'm listening fellas/gals. how long do we think it would take to steep cherries in gin to extract flavours? weeks/months? and I am thinking best prior to proofin... but then how does one proof after steeped in cherries..

the pull to get to market is strong but I hope the honesty to the craft is stronger.

A nearby local distillery that originated in Poland (Kozuba and Sons) does it for years...

needmorstuff

Well I ain't got years so natural flavour additives will be more likely

zymurgybob

Not sure about Kozuba's process, but I used to steep whole cherries (Lamberts, mostly, but some Bings) for several months and the results were surprising, at least the first time I did it. The mechanics of osmosis yielded a lightly-flavored liquid that appeared to be lower inn ABV than the original liquid, but the cherries were full-flavored, and, if anything, almost disagreeably alcoholic. As always, YMMV.

Homebrew

@zymurgybob said: The mechanics of osmosis yielded a lightly-flavored liquid that appeared to be lower inn ABV than the original liquid.

The cherries are contributing to the density.
Therefore, any glass hydrometer or density meter like Anton Paar's will read low.
I see this with my strawberry gin.
Starts at 40%.
Once it is done, my Anton Paar density meter shows 32% ABV.
Of course no alcohol has been lost (in airtight jar). It's just that the density has increased.
So the ABV cannot be taken without distilling a sample.