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I am in the process of developing my procedure and botanical payload and quite happy with progress so far. However when I compare my product to say sipsmith (not the best comparison) I am notably lacking in mouthfeel.. sipsmith has a definite mouthfeel, I would say they have added sugar but it is a London dry gin so they can't, it coats the inside of your mouth and has a lingering quality to it.
Is it glycerine they add, doesn't that count as "sugar"?
Are you using GNS?
at the moment I am just using my own spirit from a TPW, 1 x stripping run and then through a 3" column 1m high full of SPP... when we go to market i will be using GNS... why do you ask? does GNS have more nmouthfeel than my TPW based wash.
Licorice root perhaps?
i never considered the botanicals would add to mouthfeel and funnily enough we dont have licorice root in our selection.. we have calamus root and angelic but no licorice..
Sipsmith does contain licorice.
It can be perceived as sweet.
And can’t London Dry have 0.1g/l of sugar? That’s enough to make a difference. It won’t taste sweet from that amount, but there will be a perceptual impact.
i wouldnt have thought that small an amount would make a difference, good to know. i am going to try liquorice and see how it turns out. thanks.
@needmorstuff my experiments with flavour profiles took a leap once I moved from TPW to GNS. Virtually back to the drawing board particularly around weights. I agree with the Licorice comments. Also there will be differences with different combinations of botanicals working with each other as well as the abv off the still compared to how much water is added to arrive at the final product.
@geoff400 - you're not helping ;-) I was hoping TPW to GNS would be a smooth transition.. can you be more specific?
GNS is made professionally to a very high standard in the UK in very large quantity, something we struggle to achieve using small scale equipment. There is always going to be an inherent background flavour to TPW that will add its influence to whatever combination of botanicals you put together. I found myself over compensating with amounts to try to mask it. The quantities I now use are much smaller due to using GNS, in fact I am almost stripping my gin right back to what could be described as the very basics, in knowledge that I could influence the flavour in any direction if I wanted to.
ah gotcha... I am quite particular with my TPW and extremely brutal in my cuts to get as neutral as possible.. so for a possible 11litres of product I only use 5.5 from the middle... I run slow through 1m of SPP and compress my heads in addition. I hope my protocol has lead to a good standard of Neutral but will of course revert to the drawing board with GNS should it warrant it.
my botanical payload is quite modest.. for 1 litre of finished product i ma only using 20gm of juniper and 7gm of coriander, and other small amount of botanicals ;-)
I am well under 20gms Juniper, been down as low as 8 and 9 gms/L :D
yowzers, i am going to that for my flavoured offering. all good though - less cost.
Calamus is legal to use in EU?
EU is generally more strict than US, surprising since Calamus is not GRAS (Generally recognized as safe).
CFR - Code of Federal Regulations Title 21 @ FDA
If I can buy it I use it ;-).. on a serious note I had better check. That's the only one I am not sure about. All the others I know are commonly in use.
The main flavor component of Calamus, Beta-Asarone, is an established carcinogen.
not that it is conclusive but i have just found 3 other gins in the uk with calamus root declared as a botanical
I got a formula instantly kicked back in the US for Calamus... and also for tarragon, close enough relative of wormwood that it would have required testing...
EU has a track record of looking the other way when it suits political interests. Oh snap. :)
Despite clearly indicating that it not only carcinogenic, but toxic, they happily state they would provide exceptions for spirits. They've only gone so far as to make a recommendation, but not institute any limit or testing.
Opinion of the Scientific Committee on Food on the presence of b-asarone in flavourings and other food ingredients with flavouring properties (PDF)
excellent follow up everyone - thanks. I will strongly consider my position on this.
The EU was a nice idea when it was a buyers club. Now it is an authoritarian non elected bureaucracy heavily leaned on by Germany they can keep it, we're off B-)
oh dear.. let's not talk politics. especially when i might be getting my bottles from saverglass ;-)
I spoke to my marketing director (wife) and she suggested we should drop the "cancer root"
Where's the fun in that?
I'm more like I am now than I was before.
4 out of 5 Doctors agree...
I think heroine used to be the cure to all ailments too.
I'm not really loving this Licorice root, - tried 2 test batches now with 1gm per litre of product.
Both times the initial amount of product I have to discard due to "dirty earthy smells" has more than doubled.
Is that normal?
My test batches are 3l of spirit @ 95% abv watered down to run through my pot still. Originally I had to discard 200ml of output. Now I have to discard around 500ml before the smell has definitely gone.. I am then well into the citrus notes...
Have you tried leaving it in? let all the flavours blend together rather than making a cut. you are after the complete occasion which needs all components to be at the party rather than not allowing some in to play by making cuts.
It stinks though. I tried but have gone back to excluding it and it's a lot better. I might try adding a very small amount if sugar for mouthfeel
Have you tried doing individual botanicals and blending?