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In this Discussion
- CothermanDistilling November 2019
- crozdog November 2019
- DonMateo July 2023
- Fiji_Spirits August 2023
- FloridaCracker September 2019
- GD50 August 2019
- gixxerpilot750 April 2019
- grim August 2023
- JayTee November 2018
- lowball November 2018
- punkin September 2019
- Raoul_Duke February 2018
- richard July 2023
- Sam October 2019
- Smaug August 2023
- Unsensibel September 2019
- zymurgybob October 2019
Comments
@CothermanDistilling - you are talking 25lb to a finished PG of product?
I am thinking 10-15%, but it looks like 20-25% because I can be more picky on the first racking and not dip into the magma-like sludge...... just think of it as sparging a mash vs just draining the mash tun...
Wrong post..
I've been averaging 63-64 proof gallons of product based on 644lbs of fancy and 644lbs of high-quality blackstrap.
That's about 20-20.5 pounds of blended molasses per proof gallon.
That's with recycling heads and a portion of tails. I would say fairly narrow cut.
25lb to 1pg sounds pretty good, considering what I'm paying for the 1288 pounds (About $740.00).
20lbs per PG for low wines, 25 for finished would make me happy, but for what mine costs($100 vs $740), I guess that I should be happy with 50lbs/PG...
I was just wondering if anyone can help, I was reading a book "A Distillers Guide to Rum" and in here they talk about Grade A Molasses which appears to be an American term not used in Australia.
In the description the book refers to it as a "quality table molasses". Am I right in thinking that in Australia this would be Golden Syrup?
It refers to U.S. Grade A or "Fancy" Molasses. Caution though, there are lots of different terms used by manufacturers and distributors to further qualify (or obscure quality) of the molasses.
Just for reference, a typical nice Blackstrap molasses would be considered a Grade C.
There are probably lots of Feed/Fertilizer grade molasses products that fall into Substandard. Not because of sugar content, but because of ash.
Easy way to tell the quality of a molasses, just look at the ash number - ignore the sugar content. Below or at 5% ash, it's really good. Below or at 3.5% ash, it's excellent. Keep in mind though, this is the lighter flavored stuff.
Thanks grim, I was looking at a sugar mill here (I could only find one with the data sheets) and the lowest ash content is in the ‘Premium Molasses’ but this is still 13%. It says maximum so should be lower but thats still a bit high.
I actually called them and they told me they don’t grade molasses in Australia like they do in the USA.
I had thought about maybe clarifying the molasses as that should reduce the Ash content.
These are the other molasses products they offer.
Get the 13% and mix it with normal sugar to get it under 10% ??? Just a suggestion as I know nothing about rum.
From what I have read adding sugar would reduce the ash content but also increases the cost, this could be offset by increased yields though.
It seems to me that 13% is still very high for a premium molasses, the other grades are 18% ash.
It strikes me as odd in Aus we don’t seem to have that premium grade. Ultimately I will have a play with a few combinations of molasses and raw sugar and see what works as I’m trying to get a lighter rum.
The first one I did I used feed grade and it wasn’t great so am trying to find a better option.
Is it worth going to the effort of clarifying?
Absolutely clarify.
Get rid of as much ash as possible.
FC
Just having a quick look at my dilution calculator say with 100L mollasses and further which I use for apple concentrate and applying it to the above (mollasses) ...... please tell me where I have gone wrong or if it does not hold true.......
So 100L mollasses and mixed with 293L water for resultant total volume 393L and final fermented to an SG of 1.1 would give me a PA of 12.7%
Read up on @CothermanDistilling's work with clarification and sedimentation.
Those product sheets don’t indicate that the source is cane. Do they process sugar beets in NSW?
This product seems like an interesting starting point:
Treacle Product Specification (PDF) @ Sunshine Sugar
It's a cane mill. Harwood is just up the road from me. As far as i'm aware there is only cane sugar here.
StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand
Yeah, that "Treacle" product looks like it's a nice choice for a clean/mild rum. Fairly high fermentables, should provide a very good yield.
@grim thanks, I will give the treacle a try as well. I wasn’t sure about it as it has partially inverted sugars but will definitely add it to the list and give it a try. Would you clarify treacle?
I will give @CothermanDistilling's work a read.
@FloridaCracker with clarifying if I were looking at a recipe that called for say 10L of molasses would you clarify 10L and use the yield from that or would you use 10L of already clarified molasses?
I haven't seen that Treacle from there but it looks like they do it. Sounds good in fact thats where i would use if was still close. We also got 200 l drums of Molasses from there to feed cattle. Previously lived at Grafton ( Blaxland Creek ) so a little bit closer up the road than Punkin.
@GD50 from speaking to them they have most of it available if you call the sales team. It seems the premium molasses is the only one they don’t do in anything larger than 500g jars. However, they will put it in larger pails if requested.
Its funny we always drive past them on the way To Byron but never had the need to deal with the directly.
They were really helpful on the phone and not like the larger producers.
10L of clarified. You will obviously lose a percentage during the clarification but the results will be well worth it.
FC
@FloridaCracker thanks mate, that is what I thought and it makes sense.
What nutrients do you guys use in your fermentations? The book suggests Fermaid K and Go-Ferm but I can’t find either of these in Aus (I have asked around a few brew shops). To date I have just been using DAP but one brew shop suggested the Still Spirits Dark Spirits nutrients. I was wondering if anyone has used this and knows if its any good? I’m always reluctant with these guys as in my mind they are all about flavouring syrups and turbo yeasts which just puts me off.
Distiller's Nutrient Dark Spirits @ Still Spirits
start at page 1 of this thread and read it all carefully...
You can get fermaid etc from Llallemand Australia or any of the yeast distributors or Bintani or any of the brewing wholesalers.
I stock DAP by the half kilo if that's what you choose.
StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand
I use DAP and Fermaid AT which i buy from homebrew shops particularly one in Queensland for the AT. Both the DAP and Fermaid are 100gms per 200l brew with 50 % start and 50% at around 1/2 sugar depletion.
Not sure on the Treacle and the partial inversion but would just guess you have to use the right yeast to get at the fructose.
I started using Fermaid about 3 months ago and I noticed a very decent jump in yields. Now I feel like a dolt that I didnt do it a year ago. But better late than never. I use 100gms for a 200l wash as well.
My brew just finishing using the Dual Yeast Recipe in "Newbie Wanting Help With Recipe " thread and using Fermaid AT and DAP I have been getting readings i could not believe. Now that it has just about stopped fizzing I am back on track.
Finishing SG 0.985 ( but still going - just ) Start SG 1.092 so looking like 14 % which is what i normally get from this recipe. ( 46 kg sugar made up to 180 L ). More than happy with the mid addition of Fermaid and DAP. Tastes great but so dry.
I used to used fermaid/fermax, but the cost for 400L and 1000L batches was getting a bit high, so started researching lower cost alternatives, that is where the Ammonium Sulfate came from... Fermax was $20/Kg, and $4 a batch, and molasses was ~$25... Ammonium sulfate is about $1/Kg when bought as 'spray grade' chemical..
I use a combo of Ammonium Sulfate, Mag Sulf (Epsom salt) and multi vitamins (20 per 50 gallon run, dissolved). Ferments start with a bang and never fail to finish dry. I add half of the Am Sufl at the start and the other half 24 hours later.
Like @CothermanDistilling, I didn't like the $$ of Fermaid.
FC