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Steam Mash Tun

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  • I just found an extra 2"x20" TC pipe that I have that can hold the element. I'm thinking of just drilling a hole in the middle of it and welding a SS threaded bung to it. That way I can just connect it to the nipple that goes to the bottom of the tank. Do you guys see any problem with that setup?

    So getting a list together; PRV, 2"X1" TC element adapter for 1" nipple to PRV, element guard kit, 2" cap, (3) 2" clamps, 4 2" gaskets,

    What am I forgetting?

  • FC i think you should practice on my kettle then you ll have all the bugs worked out when its time to do yours lol . how many elements are going to put in your set up .

    tim

  • Probably just one because it appears that I am only going to be heating up between one and 2 quarts of water

  • im thinking 2 elements , and putting a prv on one side and connecting to it making steam generator out of the bottom canister . if the steam line was connected to the prv would that not maintain a set amount of pressure in the kettle jacket . and any thing over and above that could be sent to the mash tun . im not sure if this would work i have to find the thread on steam generator and go thru that carefully . i jus think if the bottoms kettle had the steam generator attached to it it would save some floor space , but maybe it should be separate and jus lines going to either the bottoms kettle or the mash tun .

    tim

  • edited December 2017

    Do not use a PRV as a regulator, doing so will pretty much guarantee it will fail prematurely, and you may die as a result (it will actually fail open and leak, but that doesn't have nearly the shock value). PRV should be considered a safety device of last resort, meaning that over the entire lifetime of operation, it should NEVER need to be used.

    Typical boiler installation requires two parallel pressure controllers (Pressuretrols), this is to provide primary pressure control as well as a failsafe, so that the PRV does not need to be relied upon.

  • edited December 2017

    @FloridaCracker said: Do you guys see any problem with that setup?

    Just make sure you don't have water boiling up through the pipe on the kettle. If you have water boiling up through that pipe, you risk trapping condensate in the kettle, or you risk hammer as steam forces a slug of water up the pipe, and into the bottom of the kettle. This is the reason most steam boiler installations have the steam header rising roughly 24" off the water line.

  • edited December 2017

    Another viable option would be:

    image

    kettle.jpg
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  • edited December 2017

    Hudsonbay's idea of cutting open the jacket bottom and welding on the larger cylinder as the boiler base, is I think the best option here. You've got a nice wide boiling vessel, don't risk boil up, you have a nice wide open, absolutely zero risk of condensate backing up. It's got enough water volume that some occasional steam loss doesn't risk you running dry. On the downside, it adds more volume, so slows heatup.

    Really though, there are probably dozens of variations on this that would work just fine, depending on what you can or can't do.

  • thanks grim for the info and the reminder on the prv . there will be alot more head scratching going on before we start on this .

  • Also keep in mind, if you are venting steam to control pressure, you now need to account for make up water in the boiler. Accounting for boiler make up water, you now need a way to measure the liquid level in the boiler. Now you are getting very complicated (and making a boiler). You will very quickly run dry if you are venting steam.

  • I was going to use a SD element controller to control the pressure, ie adjusting while watching the pressure gauge. Keeping the ball valve at the top open until steam comes out.The PRV would just be a failsafe. My idea of the 2" housing for the element doesn't seem so good now. Not enough head room.

  • Try it, might be fine.

  • It's the "might be fine" part that scares me. Gonna go with a larger reservoir tank just not sure how just yet. Will probably go with Smaug's idea of the 4" tee.

  • Congrats on the Craigslist score!!

    FC, just curious about what your process would look like? Considdering the kettle has the tilt option and presuming that your self contained steam “boiler”/RIMS system will be attached to the bottom of the kettle, would you be dumping the contents to a bucket or similar or draining down through a drain with the kettle upright? If dumping, would it make sense to put an orientation type switch to turn off the element if the operator forgets to and tips the kettle?

  • @gixxerpilot750 said: Congrats on the Craigslist score!!

    FC, just curious about what your process would look like? Considdering the kettle has the tilt option and presuming that your self contained steam “boiler”/RIMS system will be attached to the bottom of the kettle, would you be dumping the contents to a bucket or similar or draining down through a drain with the kettle upright? If dumping, would it make sense to put an orientation type switch to turn off the element if the operator forgets to and tips the kettle?

    Great question. I plan on fermenting in this kettle so the element will be off for a few days before I dump the contents.

    On another note I think I have decided to go with Smaug's setup. Stay tuned.......

  • FC do you have a lid on yours

  • after this reducer is welded on i need to get creative on sealing this lid any idea would be great

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    lid.jpg
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  • Are you trying to turn it into a still?

  • @hudsonbaydistiller said: FC do you have a lid on yours

    No I don't. After fermentation I am going to strain and run in my 4 plate. I'll have to find something to cover it after pitching yeast.

  • grim yes i am planing on using it as a bottoms kettle with a 4 inch continuous column.b see as its only 30 gallon kettle it not much good for anything else .

  • @FloridaCracker said:

    Should be able to temp control on cooling side too no?

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • OK, I have this thing just about completed. Couple of questions;

    1. The kettle is rated to 25psi but what pressure SHOULD I be running?

    2. I am going to install a 6500w ULWD element and control it via a SD controller. Any problems there?

    3. I plan to fill the element reservoir to just above the element, this will keep the water out of the kettle. Is that OK?

    Pictures are coming as soon as the element is installed later today. Hopefully a trial run with just water in the kettle tomorrow.

  • edited January 2018

    Try not to exceed 15psi, and I'm just saying that because that's the number that's been adopted by the engineering community as not requiring specific certifications and approvals (ASME, etc). Your top end is going to be limited by your pressure relief valve anyway, what is it? 15psi? Less?

    The triclamp components, even though they've never been certified, would likely have pressure ratings well above 25psi.

  • Just keep in mind, 6500 watts, about 85% efficiency - you are talking about 2-3 hours to bring a full mash to boil.

  • OK, I'll set 15psi as the limit. The PRV is a SD valve. Hopefully it can handle 15psi. I plan to turn on the element with the PRV and ball valve open and then once steam is coming out of both I'll close the ball valve and then adjust the PRV to the desired pressure. Then wait.

  • edited January 2018

    FC our PRVs max out at 15 psi. You can adjust to reduce pressure but can not be adjusted to exceed 15 psi.

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • Tri-clamps .... "generally " ought never be used above 6 bar. However I never recommend a tri-clamp with steam, I think they are dangerous. However with steam and a tri-clamp if you have to use it, I would never go above 1 to 2 bar.

  • That kettle ratting of 25 psi is equivalent to 1.7 bar.

  • edited January 2018

    Clean steam systems in pharma and food manufacturing are commonly plumbed with triclamp. The top end manufacturers like Spirax Sarco and Watson McDaniel all make sanitary triclamp steam components with ratings that would classify them for use in high pressure steam (above 15psi).

    According to Holland, sanitary tubing in the 1-2" range likely has a burst pressure in excess of 10,000 psi (690bar). Holland says wing nut triclamp in 1"/1.5" and 2" is good to 250psi (17bar) at 250F. Two-bolt high pressure clamps good to 1,500psi (103bar) at high temp.

    Pretty sure at sub 15psi, there is minor concern, and there are probably a dozen ways a system could fail before the piping was an issue. Caution should be taken as it is easy to accidentally open a wing-nut clamp, but this same concern exists day-to-day when you are operating a still. High pressure clamps should mitigate this, not because you need 1500psi, but because the bolts and lock washers make it highly unlikely they would accidentally or inadvertently open.

  • edited January 2018

    100% grim.

    Marinate on the profile of a tri clamp (HP or hinge) and how it actually works for a moment or two. Plenty strong for only 1 bar.

    Similarly, a cotter pin or C clip does not supply the strength to it's intended mechanical connection if you see my meaning?

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

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