Esters and their Smells

crozdog

Found this great chart

crozdog

i found that table when reading about chill filtering

grim

Dropping down the left side:

• Methanoate - Formate - Formic Acid Esters - Not commonly found in distilling.
• Ethanoate - Acetate - Acetic Acid Esters - Bacterial - Produced by a number of different bacteria
• Propanoate - Propionate - Propionic Acid Esters - Bacterial - Produced by Clostridium and Propionibacterium
• Butanoate - Butyrate - Butyric Acid Esters - Bacterial - Produced by Clostridium
• Pentanoate - Valerate - Valeric Acid Esters - Bacterial - More common are the iso-Valerate esters - produced by Brettanomyces.

A number of the higher carbon carboxylics are produced during fermentation, Caprice, Caprylic, Lauric, etc.

Missing from the chart is another acid, it's not a carboxylic, but common - lactic. Which have a set of very important esters as lactic acid bacteria are very common.

grim

That's why I did this one. The most common ester combinations - given the most common carboxylics (and lactic) - and the most common alcohols, including methanol and the 4 most common tails alcohols.

grim

There is a very expensive book called Fenaroli's Handbook of Flavor Ingredients, Sixth Edition @ Amazon that has a table that also classifies most of these into sweet, bittersweet, and bitter, which is pretty fun in the context of cuts.

grim

Speaking of expensive books - if someone can gift me a copy of Flavor Creation by John Wright I would be really appreciative.

Fiji_Spirits

Lol. Hold your breath.

Don't suppose you would Fenarolis table for us to view....

Great info there. Thanks for the work on it.

Are you a chemist or something? What's your background in this area? You always seem to have such insightful comments on chemistry.

grim

The tables are more extensive than just esters, it's a broad mix of flavor compound types.

CothermanDistilling

@grim said: There is a very expensive book called Fenaroli's Handbook of Flavor Ingredients, Sixth Edition @ Amazon that has a table that also classifies most of these into sweet, bittersweet, and bitter, which is pretty fun in the context of cuts.

I picked up the 2nd edition for $25 on eBay as a starter..

grim

Wtf $25?!?!

richard

I see the the 6th edition is somewhat pricey and is also soft cover / paper back bound

CothermanDistilling

@grim said: Wtf $25?!?!

I also got a 2nd rotovap with a oem buchi vertical condenser and 855 controller... been on an eBay streak..

grim

I got a brand new dma35 for $550

CothermanDistilling

great deal! Someone needs to make a fully TTB approved handheld for under $1000 retail... the desktop ones that cost $50k are from an era when FAX machines were king...

grim

I keep my eye out for one of the paar, rudolph, or mettler big boys.

grim

I need that 855 too.

CothermanDistilling

I missed out on buchi v condenser and 855 for $1000, got next one with bath for $1700... arrives tomorrow... crossign fingers glass not broken inside in shipping... and got some stuff lined up for that 855.....

doing lacto ferment on left front 4 jars for hot sauce, everything else is for rotovap... doing jalapeno 4 ways to find best aroma... 8lb of Habenero infused 190 in back container

grim

Looks delicious

CothermanDistilling

Dunno what ester makes the fruity smell of habanero, but I can tell you cleaning the used containers in the sink with hot water volatilizes it enough to burn the center of your lungs and still smell awesome!

grim

That back container of habanero is an awesome shade of orange tang.

grim

Going to bring this one back from the dead.

It's nearly impossible to find any deals on rotovaps or associated equipment now that the marijuana industry has bought up everything and anything.

I've been hunting for the v-855 and vertical glass with temp probe. Impossible. I may need to spend $2000+ for just these two pieces.

CothermanDistilling

@grim said: Going to bring this one back from the dead.

It's nearly impossible to find any deals on rotovaps or associated equipment now that the marijuana industry has bought up everything and anything.

I've been hunting for the v-855 and vertical glass with temp probe. Impossible. I may need to spend $2000+ for just these two pieces.

I have a 2nd system with 855, and vertical glass, but no temp probe, keep an eye out for one, maybe I will cut you a deal... I just got a Buchi pump diaphram for $50 and felt like I hit the lotto almost have a 3rd vacuum pump working..

CothermanDistilling

Specifically, this is needed: Buchi 47235 "Automatic distillation probe for V-855"

grim

Yep, that's the ticket. Really need to be able to have the vap run a program so that it's not so time intensive to have to babysit.

CothermanDistilling

@grim said: Yep, that's the ticket. Really need to be able to have the vap run a program so that it's not so time intensive to have to babysit.

I have yet to use the automatic feature of my 1st unit with the 855, I have that special probe in place, however my butt is not in a chair long enough to read the manual...

grim

I tried reading through, I’m not sure it’ll even do that.

CothermanDistilling

@grim said: I tried reading through, I’m not sure it’ll even do that.

If you let me know what your test plan is for the setup of the V855, I can run it and give you notes and feedback to see if it is worth the cost. or you can visit Florida this winter and run it yourself on vacation, LOL... you can call it R&D, there are 20 distilleries in the Tampa area now, but only about three make everything from scratch...

grim

Collaboration trip?