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In this Discussion
- CothermanDistilling May 2017
- crozdog May 2017
- DonMateo November 2018
- Fiji_Spirits May 2017
- flidget June 2017
- GD50 June 2017
- grim May 2017
- Kapea November 2018
- max November 2018
- Mickiboi June 2017
- punkin June 2017
- Unsensibel May 2017
- vimia May 2017
- zymurgybob May 2017
Comments
@Mickiboi. Added nutrients today. Could not locate any Fermaid AT only A but read up on it and don't think it is a problem ??? A little late as needed to get some DAP in and it missed the weekend freight. Had a leak on lid that explains why my airloc was not rocking but it still is a slow ferment. Now at 1.054. Basically looking good with ph at 4.0 so will leave it at that - agree? What FG does it normall end at ?
Be interesting to see the difference from a TPW. If it ends up around 14.5% it will be a productive brew.
Yes mate agree. 1.054 after a couple of days is great. Keep an eye on it as the sg approaches 1.015. If it doesn't drop to 1.000 2 days after 1.015 drop another 50 grams DAP into your 180 litres. That should finish it off. After it stops bubbling wait about 5 days and the solids will drop to the bottom on their own. Strip when ready but you can wait quite a while before you do. Really no hurry after ferment has finished.
Forgot to add it should run all the way out to under 0.990. I'm sure you will find this way better than TPW which I think for a neutral, is a horrible beast.
@Mickiboi would you be willing to share your 180l batch receipe? I have had mixed results with TPW at that scale
Fiji Mickiboi gave it to me and it uses EC1118 and bakers yeast Dap Fermaid A and multi vitamin tablets and seems to be going great scaled up to 180 l. The only problem you may encounter where you are is keeping the temp down to between 18 and 20. Can't comment on the final product until I distill it but looking good all be it slow compared to TPW. I also do 180 l runs of TPW and have no real problem and it is not so temp dependant. Why mixed results with TPW ? It is the flavour at the end That I am playing with.
I will let Mickiboi send you the recipe but I can also as I have your email address. No I don't think I do as I believe we PM
I've been reading all the forum posts. Is this the recipe from 2015? Not sure if it scales to 180l.
Dual yeast raw sugar neutral wash (PDF)
that's it though Mickiboi has a little update on that version and the only thing I have noticed is that you -well I did not need ph up more ph down. In the version he gave me he also had the amount of thiamin in Gm / l as I could not get the tabs he used.
The other thing I did was not to aerate like he said I just used my electric drill with a mixer blade that aerated to the max and thoroughly incorporates air bubbles used right . Did that for a while which looked much more effective than my aquarium pump.
@Mickiboi 1.045 and ph 3.7 . Going great after the additional nutrients . Had a taste just now and you could drink it. Like a smooth ginger beer minus the ginger. Really happy with it though it has been 14 days but at least now i can see the airlock bubbling nicely and still at 19 degrees.
@GD50 good to hear mate. I'm very suprised that your pH didn't drop after the first day, may have something to do with your water, mine comes out of the Murray (horrible shit) so I would assume you are using tank water out there, yes? or your town water is way better than mine. That's exactly how it should be, if you are going to distil it you should always be able to drink it, shit in = shit out. When its finished try a glass or 2,my mates grab a glass from the cupboard and always slurp it down. I am sure you will notice the difference between the TPW and this after distilling. Recipe attached again for anyone interested.
After you have stripped it add 2 grams of Lectric Calcium Carbonate per litre of stripped wash and leave that for about a week and then run it through your column or plates. Make sure you dissolve the Calcium Carbonate in warm water before you dump it in, don't just throw the powder straight in the strip.
Dual yeast neutral wash recipe (XLSX)
I have tried white sugar as well and I don't know why but it seemed to be a bit hotter on the back of the throat, maybe something left in white sugar from the whitening process that carries over. The raw sugar has a sweetness and smoothness to it that blends really well to making gin. And its pretty nice to drink straight as well, at 40% of course.
Tank water. I used half brown half white sugar as that's what i had but will use brown next time. Be surprised if there is any difference as being ex sugar refinery i would be surprised if most brown is not white with a bit of molasses added back. maybe wrong there but the proof is in the pudding so to speak.
Two points here - I should have said most raw sugar is probably white with added molasses.
In Mickibois recipe above when the brew is at 1.060 add approx 40 gm Fermaid and 50 gm DAP. I rounded to the start value to 100 Gm. Not what he has written there as he scaled it up to 180 l but missed that bit.
Thanks guys!
Couple of questions.
This looks kind of similar to what I've been working up. My yeast choices have to be different but my nutrient profile is still fluctuating. Particularly b vitamins.
Multi is mostly for b vitamins. Nutrients all at once is too much for the yeast. There is information on the Llalemand website about this, less stress and I read somewhere else less SO2 as well. I think this was in the using EC1118 with champagne section where SO2 levels are critical.
Anyone else notice flavor differences due to the multivitamins?
I used the CVS JustForWomen brand and I really enjoyed the light, delicate floral aromas, but the next run, I used RealMan Body Builder Supplement and it was really just very aggressive, irritating, and a little flabby in the finish.
For you guys racking your wash off yeast, you have fantastic nutrient available right there. Especially you @Fiji_Spirits - because of lack of availability of good commercial nutrient. After you re-use your yeast for a few generations, boil it down, use it as nutrient.
If you are repitching yeast slurry over multiple generations, you should be drowning in yeast and nutrient.
Good point @grim. I have reused my yeast slurry in the past.
@Mickiboi thanks. I kind of suspected that. I really think my fermentation temps are a big reason for my flavor profile issues. My yeast selection is becoming a big deal.
@grim
The B vitamins don't throw the flavour at all 1 gram per litre but you will notice a difference in taste if you don't use them. It does help the yeast during the long ferment.
My sweet pea came home today after a few days bush and i gave her a blind taste of Mickibois brew . She thought it tasted great and could not decide if it was a beer or ginger beer but whatever is was good. Then i told her it was the spirit base. Her comment then was you could not drink TPW wash like that.
My brew is dropping 0.08 SG per day and ph seems to have stabilized at 3.4 so could be finished in 4 days and looking potentially to be 14.0 % abv This looks like it is going to be a great brew.
Is there is a thread on repitching the yeast as i could go straight in and brew another but have never reused yeast like that.
Let it settle out for a couple of days and rack it off. From 180 litres you should have about 7 to 10 left in the bottom. Make up your new 180 batch of sugar water complete with nutrients and stuff. Take 200ml if your yeast slurry and add about 2 litres if your wash. Keep an eye on it for bubbling. When it starts to bubble and take off again put that 2 litres into your large slurry. Wait about 2 hours and then put the whole lot into your new 180 litres. Wash rinse repeat as they say.
0.08 and 3.4 is perfect mate. You will get a lovely soft neutral from this.
@Mickiboi why are you adding dap and multivitamins with thiamine when the fermaid at contains both?
Complex yeast nutrient @ Lallemand Wine
DAP is cheaper than Fermaid at. It doesn't contain enough of either. But according to the guy that helped me on this the dead yeast lower the S02 production durinh ferment. As @grim grim said boil your yeast and make your own.
@Mickiboi Sorry to be a pain in the arse and a bit slow but could you write that again from the point "When it starts to bubble and take off again " by large slurry are you meaning the whole lot remaining from previous brew. Ie it all goes in ??
Secondly is there any advantage of doing this other than cost ??
It all goes in or if you are doing 2 washes split it. Or you can boil half as grim said and make your nutrient and only throw half in. I know there is a lot of yeasties in the leftover but it wont make it ferment much faster, maybe a day or 2. I dont know why that's the case but it has never sped up for me. I do 60 litre batches and usualy leave about 2 litres in the bottom. If I use the yeasties left over from that batch it just tends to start getting a bit thick so I was throwing half of it on the garden but I will now boil it up and use it as nutrient.
No advantage other than cost mate. I have never done more than 3 repeats, I would interested to see how the flavour goes after 10 repeats but thats a really big ask for someone to do that.
I have thrown this mead calculator with nutrient additions out here a couple times, it is simple and shows when to add the 3 additions of nutrient and DAP.
HighTest's Mead Calculator
@GD50 have you got a progress report for us.
Threw in 50gms DAP Saturday and now 1.012 so dropping only .07 in the last day. PH meter appears to have died and ordered another so hopefully it is not far away but Saturday it was 3.4 so ok