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Pump type ideas and 220v breaker size?

Newbie here. I bought a Crystal Dragon 4" with pro caps and Dephlegmator. I am bought this last year but events have kept me from putting it together. Now I have my 220v outlet installed with a 30 amp breaker. Do you feel that is enough or should I go bigger? Second question is water.... I do not have a water source to pull directly from so I will have to tank it. What pumps do you guys recommend to pull water from a tank and to flush the water out when complete? Thanks for answer a newbie question but I searched for pumps and came up with nothing of note.

Thanks.

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Comments

  • edited March 2017

    Cheap submersible sump pump works fine. Put a bypass valve on it for good measure.
    I don't know where you are but this is the type of thing i'm talking about.

    Submersible Pumps @ Bunnings Warehouse AU

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • Sorry. Yeah. New England area.. USA.

  • So using a sump pump for hours and hours to push water through the still should be ok? Have you had one burn out?

  • No, i used 12 volt boat bilge pumps for the first eight years, they are still going strong too.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • Awesome! Thanks!!

  • How does this work in USA ? Your line voltage is 120 V so to have a 220 v outlet it is either a three phase outlet or uncommonly two single phases with 220v between them. So i assume when you say 220v 30 amps you actually have a three phase outlet with a 30 three phase breaker. For us we have 240 volt single phase and 415 volt three phase and mostly our heaters would be 240v single phase units. The frequency difference 50 vs 60 is basically irrelevant.

  • Hmm.. Now I am going to have to look. I think I misspoke about the 220v. I think it is a standard 240v. I was just wondering if 30 amp breaker is enough for the standard heating element.

  • @startrk 30A is plenty if you're planning on running one camco / 5500W element. For pumps, Harbor Freigth has plenty of pumps available for less than $40. Not sure if they're running on 240V though. Do you have a 3 prong or 4 prong 240V outlet? If you have 4, then you can fork off one line with ground to hook up a 120V outlet as well.

    @GD50 it's 240V and a standard for oven's and dryers here in the US. Typical main panels here have two hot lines and you get 240V by going L1 to L2 instead of L1/2 to N for regular plugs.

  • I have a tank for cooling and a radiator for cooling the tank. I use two pond pumps, 110v, (one pump does the cooling and one pump pushes through the radiator) on a separate circuit from the heating element. Surely, you've got a standard outlet nearby.

  • @GD50 said: How does this work in USA ? Your line voltage is 120 V so to have a 220 v outlet it is either a three phase outlet or uncommonly two single phases with 220v between them. So i assume when you say 220v 30 amps you actually have a three phase outlet with a 30 three phase breaker. For us we have 240 volt single phase and 415 volt three phase and mostly our heaters would be 240v single phase units. The frequency difference 50 vs 60 is basically irrelevant.

    A normal 2-leg household is 2 120AC legs 180 out of phase and a common line called neutral... L1 to N =120VAC, L2 to N = 120VAC, L1 to L2 = 240VAC

    Normal 3-leg office building 3-phase is 3 120 phases 120 degrees out that gives 208V between phases and 120v between any leg and N:

    image

    Then we have the somewhat wonky, but bery useful '3-phase high leg'

    L1(A) to N = 120VAC
    L2(B) to N = 208VAC
    L3(C) to N = 120VAC
    
    L1 to L2 = 240VAC
    L2 to L3 = 240VAC
    L3 to L1 = 240VAC
    

    image

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    1057 x 328 - 30K
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    800 x 488 - 28K
  • @punkin said: No, i used 12 volt boat bilge pumps for the first eight years, they are still going strong too.

    What are you using as a power supply for the boat pumps? I've been ignoring these due to the voltage but they are so ubiquitous i should look at them closer.

  • I just have a couple of little $20 240-12v, 2 amp power supplies that came from an electronics store. One for each pump only because i wanted them on separate switches. I used one for the pot still and one for the reflux still at one stage.

    I went to the larger sump pump when i started running a column though to get better flow. I could have used a larger bilge pump (or redone my restrictive hoses and snap on air fittings) but the economies were in favour of the sump pump.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • Awesome guys. Thanks for the help. I am sure I will be asking more questions as I go along. :) I will be grabbing a sump pump for 110v and running the one element on 240v. I have slated Monday for the still setup day so we will see how it goes. Thanks again!

  • @ClothermanDostilling. So what you are describing in a centre tapped transformer operating off a single phase. A long time ago rural could have a 480 v supply common in shearing sheds etc. in Oz. It's actually only one phase. Two 240 v legs and a 480 leg

  • edited March 2017

    @ClothermanDistilling. Just looked at your info in detail and for the life of me I can't see how that can be useful. So you have std 120 v three paste plus 240 v three phase 120 v single phase and 240 v as well and a high 208 leg Must be an electricians nightmare.

    Must be more simple at the outlets than I imagine but at the minimum 120 v 240 volt and 208 v three phase is possibly available. Sorry I an lost on the coplexity and use of this. I understand where the 240 v is useful so to reduce conductor size.

  • edited March 2017

    Had a good read of Wiki single phase split power and it is roughly how I thought it was with a single phase supplying a centre tapped transformer with two general 120 legs and a 240 v leg for higher load such as air conditioning and water heating. In Australia rural commonly uses SWER single wire earth return so back in the old days large load could only be supplied by 480 v and normal stuff 240 v but it is wrong to call it two phases really split single phase. Not common now with better motors and electronics - actually dont know if it is used at all. Your 120 / 240 can be produced from three phases using two transformers in a Scott transformer but dont know how common that is.

  • edited March 2017

    @startrk sorry got sidetracked as did not understand what you were describing. How big is your boiler ? Two 15 amp elements ( two 3500 w ) will be on the edge of your supply. In my 50 l boiler and 5" still I run two 15 amp and a 10 amp ( 2400 w ) elements but that is a lot and stretching my incoming supply. Definitely can't use the air con while distilling. Generally only use three for heat up and maybe stripping. Was basically sizing my setup to allow for expansion to a larger boiler at some stage.

    Your answer to question one depends on your boiler size. Don't use pumps and it has been covered.

  • I am no engineer. How would that Ozito pump go over a 18m horizontal distance (supply) through 13mm garden hose and say a 3.5m head? This would be using the pump to supply cooling water from the inground pool. On the other hand domestic tap water is charged out at $0.80 per 1000 litres...

  • @GD50 said: ClothermanDistilling. Just looked at your info in detail and for the life of me I can't see how that can be useful. So you have std 120 v three paste plus 240 v three phase 120 v single phase and 240 v as well and a high 208 leg Must be an electricians nightmare.

    Must be more simple at the outlets than I imagine but at the minimum 120 v 240 volt and 208 v three phase is possibly available. Sorry I an lost on the coplexity and use of this. I understand where the 240 v is useful so to reduce conductor size.

    If you have ever owned 3-phase equipment and priced out bringing in a 2nd service line to your building just to power a piece of equipment or two intermittently, you will instantly see the value... The 3-phase is 240V(triple breaker in the panel), there is single phase 120,208, and 240(dual breaker)

  • @kimbodious said: I am no engineer. How would that Ozito pump go over a 18m horizontal distance (supply) through 13mm garden hose and say a 3.5m head? This would be using the pump to supply cooling water from the inground pool. On the other hand domestic tap water is charged out at $0.80 per 1000 litres...

    I would be using some inch and a half black poly rather than restricting it with garden hose to the snaplocks. You could still roll it up when you are finished.

    There is a lot of water comes out of one of those pumps, much more than you need. You'd have to check the specs on the box regarding the head though, the run won't bother it with the larger hose but a lot of static loss with the smaller.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • edited March 2017

    @Fiji_Spirits said: What are you using as a power supply for the boat pumps? I've been ignoring these due to the voltage but they are so ubiquitous i should look at them closer.

    Hi Fiji, I use modified server power supplies. The ones I have can deliver 47A @ 12V. I have given my brother one that will put out 140A @ 12V!!!!!

    Details on how to trick several models here:

    How to convert Server Power Supplies @ RC Groups

    You can also use ATX power supplies from desktop PC's - they won't put out the same current but may be easier to get your hands on

    Convert an ATX Power Supply Into a Regular DC Power Supply! @ instructibles

    WARNING: ELECTRICITY CAN KILL. DON'T ATTEMPT ANY OF THESE MODS IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE RISKS.

  • edited March 2017

    Bilge Pumps @ Rule Pump Supply

    They only pull a couple of amps at 12v.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • @GD50 said: startrk sorry got sidetracked as did not understand what you were describing. How big is your boiler ? Two 15 amp elements ( two 3500 w ) will be on the edge of your supply. In my 50 l boiler and 5" still I run two 15 amp and a 10 amp ( 2400 w ) elements but that is a lot and stretching my incoming supply. Definitely can't use the air con while distilling. Generally only use three for heat up and maybe stripping. Was basically sizing my setup to allow for expansion to a larger boiler at some stage.

    Your answer to question one depends on your boiler size. Don't use pumps and it has been covered.

    My boiler is 50l but I only have one place for an element. First I tried the 5500 ripple element but I can't seem to get it by the element guard so I am looking for recommendations on a straight heating element. For a 50l can, what wattage element would you recommend? Stainless steel? Something that works well but does not pop my 30A breaker would be nice but if you think I need a bigger breaker then I will get the electrician back out here.

    Thanks!!

  • edited March 2017

    As @Unsensibel said above if you only got room for one then the 5500W Camco element ( or the biggest you can find ).
    If this element is the one that wont fit go the 4800 W ultra low density.
    Get your boiler modified and put two 3500 w elements which is 29 amps. Or a 4800 and a 2400 which is right on 30 amps so maybe a bit close.
    It does not cost much to get the bits, available from StillDragon, welded in for the second element.

    TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA 45 L WASH WILL TAKE AROUND 33MIN TO HEAT ON 7000w 42 MIN WITH 5500w AND 48 MIN WITH 4800w - STARTING AT AROUND 15c. With my 9600 W it takes 22 min by the calculation and this is about right in actual practice.

  • Thanks @GD50 and @Unsensibel I will do the 5500W Camco element that is straight so it will fit through the Element Guard from Stilldragon.

  • edited March 2017

    What is the difference from the high watt density vs low watt density elements? Has anyone gotten the camco 5500w ripple element to fit through the element guard? Mine won't and I am worried about forcing it through.

  • Don't know that element but the density has to do with scorching any solid or sugars onto the element. High watt density is higher temp of element surface. I have not done rum etc yet and have had no problems with gunge on element at all.

  • @startrk said: What is the difference from the high watt density vs low watt density elements? Has anyone gotten the camco 5500w ripple element to fit through the element guard? Mine won't and I am worried about forcing it through.

    yep, you may have to flex the element a bit, but I have fit 10 of them through... it is stainless steel, it can take a bit of flexing... it is stronger than a golf club shaft, LOL...

  • Thanks for the help!!

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