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Couple Questions

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  • edited August 2013

    @Law_Of_Ohms, it's a 2" gap between keg and shield on mine. I just eye-balled it. Didn't measure anything. I took the 10' sheet cut it long, then wrapped it as it sat over the keg till it looked right. I made a mark using felt tip marker. Then laid it out flat and cut it along the mark (didn't even use straight edge).

    I wrapped the jagged/cut side so it ended up on the inside and used the factory straight cut for the outside seam. Didn't have any fancy clamps, etc...so I used small locking pliers with electrical tape on the jaws so it wouldn't mar up the aluminum. I took a 2x4 about 4 feet or so long, and sat on it in a chair, and put the clamped seam over it so I could drill the holes. I did one edge first..and put a rivet in it. Then I taped down the seam and put a rivet in the other end.

    From there, finished up with 2 more rivets in the middle. I didn't quite get it flat, so it has some waffle between the rivets, but inside is flat. And it otherwise, functionally, is fine.

    As to the gap issue: I've not tested this yet (will this weekend and will report back). I didn't make it any closer because my thought was that it would force the heat "straight up" too much. It was just a gut feeling on my part that there is a balance to be struck there in efficiency. I'll know more after I test it this weekend. At least...for sure...I think it will help with the wind which was my main issue. The gain in heating efficiency is an added bonus.

  • Usage did you get to run the UJ this weekend?

  • Yes, but I dont' really have any solid information to give at this point. I had severe flow issues again :(. The day started out a bit windy but then quickly died down —ie., not as much wind as the last run I had that was successful using some wood to block the wind coming from bottom of my shades. I was getting very sporadic flow. I lifted the shield to see if that was the cause...and it didn't seem to change things. So, I'm not sure at this point what it is. But, I've got to sort it before I can really put this to any kind of test and make any kind of solid observations about it.

    As to what I "could" discern....I noticed that when I first turned the heat up...I was seeing more "flame" come out from under the burner than I had before. Always saw "heat", but not yellow flame. The heat rising inside the shield causes a wind draft below and sort of sucks the flame up the sides and this was turning more normal blue, small flames into billowing long yellow ones coming up around the edges of the keg. The alum is very flimsy so I experimented moving it around a bit. I think closer is a better fit. Somewhere between 1 to 1.25" felt about right. At least as far as I could discern under these conditions.

    It definitely keeps the heat around the keg and going up and I did notice I was using a bit less gas to drive/maintain the still. I might also try cutting some slots where it sits on the screws so I can lower it just a bit more. You could then either keep it lower, or just turn it a bit so it's not on the slots and have it higher. My concern, that I want to test...is that the velocity of the heat going 'up' the side of the keg is causing a draft, pulling cooler air from outside the shield up and into the burner. I can't confirm that yet. It's just a thought given my initial observations.

    As to my run issues, (sigh) I really don't have a clue. Lloyd I followed your instructions to a tee. The run took 10.5 hours to collect 3 liters. Smaug is helping me..and we are going to try a few different things to see if we can't get it figured out. Until then...it's a cheap date to give it a try. Would probably be more helpful at this point for someone with a proper functioning system to give it a shot.

  • Would add...I'm checking my burner for issues as well. It may need to be readjusted (air dampner, etc.) for use with the wind shield. I could not really see any problems once I got the heat adjusted. But, according to blichmann...if it's not adjusted down to tiny blue flame heads...it will produce erratic heat, etc. So, I'm gonna try and see if I can get that dialed in as well..just to eliminate one more thing.

  • As I said earlier mine is on the ground and cut out around the propane inlet. Would keeping it exactly the same and adding another piece on the bottom of the shield be an option. I bet with being off the ground when the wind blows it sucks it up the side of the keg kinda like a flue draws and messes with your flame. Im not seeing it or driving it and it is just an idea. Does the burner work fine inside no wind but eratic outside in wind?

  • @Usge said: Would add...I'm checking my burner for issues as well. It may need to be readjusted (air dampner, etc.) for use with the wind shield. I could not really see any problems once I got the heat adjusted. But, according to blichmann...if it's not adjusted down to tiny blue flame heads...it will produce erratic heat, etc. So, I'm gonna try and see if I can get that dialed in as well..just to eliminate one more thing.

    I'm using also a Blichman burner, and in the beginning I also tought i had some issues. You will always have some orange coloured flames on top, if you are using full heat. Only at less then half power you have small blue flames. it's ok for my, the flames are not putting carbon off on the boiler, nothing. Check on youtube, there is a guy that put electic ingnition on it, even running two from the same tank and see the flames !

    M-

  • @applepie said: As I said earlier mine is on the ground and cut out around the propane inlet. Would keeping it exactly the same and adding another piece on the bottom of the shield be an option. I bet with being off the ground when the wind blows it sucks it up the side of the keg kinda like a flue draws and messes with your flame. Im not seeing it or driving it and it is just an idea. Does the burner work fine inside no wind but eratic outside in wind?

    Don't use it inside so nothing to compare there. As far as extending it, I think the easiest way would be just to do a cut out for the inlet and let it slide down. The metal flashing is very pliable and easy to cut. It would be also be possible, but more work, to add a skirt to it. The only thing I could add is...when I was having this problem...I lifted the thing up above the burner level for a while and didn't notice any change in the behavior.

    That doesn't mean there could not be some kind of weird floor level air current that's shooting right into the burner on some days. The wind around here is pretty much all over the place. I also do wonder about the "flue" effect of it being off the ground. I plan on doing more testing on it soon.

  • Thanks moscca, that's good to know. I'm using the natural gas conversion kit on mine. If I push it at all it tends to want to go to flame right away so I initially did a good bit of futzing with the air flue. The bottom of my keg skirt is black all the way around both inside and outside for a few inches up. The center of the keg bottom through is squeeky clean.

    Here's what blichmann says about it:

    Looking at the flame through the flame-inspection hole, turn the air damper until the flame is slightly yellow. Then, slowly turn it back until the flame turns pale blue (the yellow will be gone) and is still touching the nozzles in the burner casting. If the flame lifts off the nozzles, or you hear a low grumbling from the flame, it is getting too much air through the damper and you will need to close it slightly. If it is yellow, there is not adequate airflow and you will need to open the damper. As you increase the gas flow via the regulator, it may be necessary to readjust the air damper. Note that optimum heating speed and efficiency can only be achieved with a properly adjusted flame. And again, you do not need to have the regulator fully open to reach maximum power. -

    The only thing I did notice when using the shield is when I turned the burner up, yellow flames would come out of the burner and up around the sides and were visible looking down in the heat shield. This would tend to suggest it was getting too "little" air, so I probably need to adjust the air flue to open it a bit more while using it. Otherwise, I didn't really notice anything different. With heat adjusted so it doesn't flame out the bottom, it normally takes me about 45 mins to bring 11 gals of wash up to speed. The nat gas is about 10k less btu than the propane version.

  • A small update on the Keg Kondom/burner. I adjusted the burner/airflue to get rid of the long yellow flames when the gas was turned up. This indeed as I suspected required opening the air flue more. Now, while it has some visible flame as suggested/mentioned when turned up...is much more stable and focused. So, I think this will help.

    As to the keg kondom...I cut it, and tightened it up. Then cut a slot for the fuel/air adjustment that sticks out and dropped it so it sits on the bricks/ground instead of the screws (which I removed). (pic to come later) Its not perfect..and ended up anywhere from 1" from the keg to 1.5" away at largest gap.

    I did a test run and put the heat to it. Didn't see any flames coming out. But, I can tell you for sure, the side with the 1" gap was "hot" all the way up to the top of the keg (and beyond). With the heat up on high...it's hot enough at the top of the keg to make you want to snatch your hand out of it. On the 1.5" gap side...it was hot, but not as intense. The very top handle of the keg was uncomfortably hot to put your hand on on the 1" side. It was bearable on the 1.5" side.

    The heat dissipated fairly quickly above the keg in open air....but even made my porch ceiling warm. When I shut the heat off, the keg was "hot" (hotter on the 1" side), the alumn heat shield was moderately warm. You wouldn't want to put your hand on the keg. But, you could pick the heat shield up with your bare hands.

    I'm fairly certain this is not all of my issue (I've got some other things to sort), but did want to give an update on at least this part. Dropping the 20" shield all the way to ground/bricks....it could still easily heat the entire keg all the way to the top. (1" about as far as you'd want to go). I don't know if they make alumn flashing in widths more than 20". But, it would not be too tough a job to just pop rivet another length of it to make it taller if it came to that.

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  • Just got back from Smaugs....used my parts and his boiler/electric. All I can say is...there isn't any problem with the parts. Run went smoothly and everything functioned properly. So, I'm down to my heat/water source as the issue. Will be scoping out a run early this week (mon probably) and we'll see how things go after the burner and heat shield adjustments.

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