How many places on the still should I monitor temperature during spirit runs?

I am building a 4 plate 4 inch ProCap. I will be installing temp wells. I need ideas. Where would be the best places on the still to monitor temps?

Comments

  • The highest point on the system is the best place to start.

    If trying to get some gradient temps, just be mindful that falling liquid will skew your temp and make your "needle" bounce all over the place.

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • edited June 2016

    We monitor 5 temps.

    1. Dephlegmator Coolant Temp
    2. Product Coolant Temp
    3. Vapor Temp
    4. Kettle Wash Temp
    5. Distillate Temp

    Wash temp, while an absolutely boring temperature to measure, helps to streamline the heatup process. We can heat full out, to the cusp of boiling, and then cut back to allow for full reflux. Instead of continually watching and waiting, a quick glance at the wash temp tells me what I need to know. I would take dephlegmator coolant temp over vapor temp, any day.

  • How highly do you rate the usefulness of the product coolant temp @grim? Does it have much use beyond indicating a potential change in your distillate temp?

  • edited June 2016

    Only useful because we recirculate and the PC/RC are PID controlled. Distillate temp feeds a limit controller which serves as an automatic shutdown of the boiler if distillate temp exceeds the limit point.

  • Thank you for your input. I have a thermo well at the top of the column for vapor. I also have the mash temp monitored, I also monitor distilate temp. I was thinking of putting another thermo well just below the Dephlegmator to monitor vapor temp into it. Why do we need to monitor coolant temp coming off the Dephlegmator, or the product condenser?

  • What is the recommended temp of the distilate coming off the parrot? Depending if I use ice or not in the product condenser coolant, I usually see distilate temp of 55F. To 80F. Is colder better?

  • colder = safer

    you significantly reduce the risk of a fire in case there's sparks or any other ignition source.

  • between room temp and your ambient dew point, take it below that, and you will get condensation, which mold and mildew like

  • Oh, and I measure vapor temp 3 places - above liquid, below RC (with drip shield), and above RC... and calibrate all three together for best results...

  • Vapor temp above liquid and the liquid temp should be equal. I considered it and just figured if you measured liquid you got more information.

  • I don't understand the below dephlegmator temp.

    To take a vapor temp at full reflux?

  • Thanks for all your input, Please help me understand how the Dephlegmator and shotgun coolant temp will help me during the run.

  • @grim said: Vapor temp above liquid and the liquid temp should be equal. I considered it and just figured if you measured liquid you got more information.

    Not on heat up :-bd

    I guess with those new aubers the wash bp isn't so critical if the probe is in the boiler headspace. Been wondering about that for a bit.

  • Yeah that's what I mean by you get more information by measuring the liquid temp vs the kettle headspace.

  • edited June 2016

    @jdgiildenzopf said: Thanks for all your input, Please help me understand how the Dephlegmator and shotgun coolant temp will help me during the run.

    They are a more direct measure of the process variable you are adjusting when you change the flow rates through the condenser, thus give you faster feedback about your changes.

    Ultimately, you would measure the vapor temperature, and adjust the coolant flow as necessary to hit your target vapor temperature. BUT - this would require you to manually adjust the coolant flow rates, wait 5 minutes, check the vapor temp, re-adjust, wait 5 minutes, check, repeat, repeat, repeat. There are lots of other variables involved, since the vapor temp isn't directly a function of the dephlegmator flow - the wash abv and power input are going to be involved was well. Needless to say, complicated.

    Instead it is much faster for us to ballpark the correct value by using the coolant temperature as a proxy. Change the valve position, and you can almost dial in the target coolant temp in real time. This way, from run to run, you can achieve a higher level of consistency, faster. Just like when driving your car, mashing the gas pedal and watching the speedo, you very quickly see the relationship and can adjust as necessary, or mash it down further. Similar here.

    Same for the product condenser, but this has more to do with water conservation if you aren't recirculating, and automation if you are recirculating.

  • I use vapor temp below the RC to do a few things, trigger the cooling water pump/solenoid(I think I trigger when that gets to 120/130F, and to monitor how much work the RC is doing... also educational to show people what a RC does on tours..

    The PC water temp sensor lets you be more efficient with your water, I keep my PC exit water about 140F

    The RC water probe lets you measure the amount of reflux, for the difference between inlet and outlet times the flow give you a very accurate measure of the energy being removed from the vapor going through the column... if you have fairly steady flow and inlet temp, then the outlet temp is a good measure all by itself...

  • edited June 2016

    @grim said: Only useful because we recirculate and the PC/RC are PID controlled. Distillate temp feeds a limit controller which serves as an automatic shutdown of the boiler if distillate temp exceeds the limit point.

    I run manual but simple to do and effective to use distillate temp as an emergency off or limit point for those that are prone to doing other things while having a run in progress. I like it. A STC1000 and a three phase or more correctly a multiple pole contactor to cut off the heaters. Wire the contactor to latch out so manual reset and all good.

  • @jdgiildenzopf, honestly I'd say save your money and install none!

    I don't have any temperature measurement on my 6" and I don't see any need for it.
    I feel the rig, if it's cool and hot in all the right places I'm happy. You can over analyse these things when simplicity is probably best for the home setup.

    @grim & @CothermanDistilling are both pros using far more complicated setups than you'll be using. Give it some thought before your throw down the cash.

    Cheers,

    Mech.

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