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TPW

jezjez
edited December 2015 in Beginner's Talk

Hi all,

I'm new here and loving all the info and post's. I'm wanting to do a TPW and wondering what's the best temp to keep it?

I've never done one before and have only done what my local brew shop offers 8kg of sugar and turbo yeast in a 25lt fermenter (please don't shot me I'm new remember). I'm in Adelaide and it"s been in the 40 degrees the last few days and looking like it will be for a few more days. I have a 2.5" Crystal Dragon on order and have a 50lt keg ready to go. Any help and info would be great.

Merry Christmas to all

Comments

  • If you simply follow the normal tpw recipe and use the lowens bakers yeast it will be ok. The high 40's will not be ideal, anywhere between 20 and 35 seems to be good. Another member on here also around your city uses a different yeast ec1118 and has some very good information on the advantages over the cheap bakers yeast. I personally use the bakers yeast. Ferments take 4/6/8 weeks in cold winter, but around 2 weeks in good weather. We have 44 degrees forecast as well (nth vic murray region) and l would not bother making up a tpw until the change comes through. Once it's had a few days to do most of the work then higher temps don't appear to affect it as much in my experience. I have 3 barrels of tpw ready, made about 6 weeks ago, as the temp rises they still burble through the air lock every now and again due to expanding and some action as l can hear it when placing my ear against the barrel.

    And welcome to the forum.

    Cheers Fadge

  • @jez said: I've never done one before and have only done what my local brew shop offers 8kg of sugar and turbo yeast in a 25lt fermenter (please don't shot me I'm new remember).

    Welcome @jez, and say NO to the turbo yeast!

    Your Place to be >>> www.StillDragon.org <<< Home of the StillDragon® Community Forum

  • @fadge Thanks fadge I'm following the recipe I found in the SD manual so I'm using the Ec1118 yeast at this stage just so I have a base to start from. Looking forward to the weather dropping so I can get this up and running. Thanks ounce again for your advice

  • @Moonshine Oh I will be from now on. :)

  • I have only used bakers yeast when doing neutrals and get a very good spirit. The price is good as well. As you will pick up along the way, how your ferment goes and how you distill is as important as the yeast. I have 6 gallons of low wines ready to run and there is very little smell even before the spirit run (waited until the wash cleared, racked and waited again, then added the sodium bicarb).

    +1 on losing the turbo yeast. I may only get 9-10% from the bakers but the payoff is more than worth it. Good luck and have fun.

  • I'd avoid using bi carb on wash Jez, only on stripped low wines. The other thing you can do if you wanted better ferments is to do what the brewers do and get an old fridge and run it on an STC 1000. That way your ferment is the same temp all year round. Fridges can be picked up from Gumtree for next to nothing, i get them from my local Harvey Norman where they have them after delivering new for old. It's a risk of whether they work or not, but i haven't got a dud yet.
    Stc's on ebay.

    The gaskets are here for the backordered Ace's and they are being packed up over the weekend for mondays freight. Hopefully it will be under the tree waiting.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • @floridacracker Thanks for the advice. I must have to do more reading as I'm not what you mean by (racked and waited again)

  • @punkin I'm upgrading my fridge to a bigger unit so will have my old one in the new year. Ok that would be great will have to change my postal address as I'm on holidays till the 4/1/2016 Xmas might come early :)

  • My last comment was a little off. Add the sodium bicarb AFTER the first distillation. Thanks for clearing that up Punkin. Otherwise you might end up with some blue hooch.

    Jez, racked means that the wash is taken from the initial mash tun to another vessel leaving the lees or sediment behind. If you can knock some of the carbonation out of it at the same time by splashing into a bucket, all the better. The more carbonation removed, the more settling you get. The waiting a day or two is to allow settling. After first distillation, you will want to let the low wines sit for another day or two after adding the bicarb. There is a vodka thread here that will really help you out.

  • edited December 2015

    @FloridaCracker said: Otherwise you might end up with some blue hooch.

    Or you don't.

  • The bicarb mixed with the wash reacts to the copper, right?

  • @floridacracker Thanks I will put that into practice.

  • IF its in the wash yes you could get a copper reaction and some coloring... in the spirit run i have not read about any of that occurring... in a neutral or vodka run the bi carb needs to be in the spirits for a few days at least to really do you a ton of good...

    Happy Stillin,

    FS

  • FS, I left my last EC1118/raw sugar strip with washing soda in it for 4 months, the whole winter in a cold shed. Best neutral i have ever made. Gave a bottle of 40% to a Finlandia vodka drinking friend, says he wont drink anything else but mine from now on. Soda makes a hell of a difference.

  • I agree is why i use it in my neutral... but you can't just throw it in at the last moment and think yeah that will work... time is required... remember i started a thread here about it...somewhere's :D

  • @Mickiboi Hey mate what do you mean by washing soda ? Is that bicarb?

    @FS Thanks for the info I'm never in any rush so quiet happy to let it sit for a few weeks

  • edited December 2015

    @jez Lectric washing soda. Woolies have it.

    image

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  • @Mickiboi ok sweet will grab some of that. thanks :)

  • I collect and store my low wines in 5L demi's, when I'm ready I'll add the sodium carbonate to the low wines in the demi's the morning of the reflux run. I add 1 teaspoon of Lectric per liter of low wines and give ema quick shake. Pour low wines into the boiler slowly as to leave the crystalised, for want of a better word, sodium carbonate in the demi's and wash out with water later. I highly recommend using it. It really cleans up your low wines and makes the reflux run more consistent. I get 95% all the way thru the run until the start of tails, this is very obvious as the alcometer rises a few point quickly and the product starts to smell...off.

    You'll have fun figuring it all out, or just shout out for any help!!!

  • edited December 2015

    These reactions will take place relatively quickly under the heat and agitation of boiling during distillation, at least they do when I'm doing my own tests. At cool temperatures, they are probably relatively slow. So if you are going by the smell of the low wines, or in-process spirit, it may be the case. Especially with bicarb, as it's very slow to dissolve in cold liquid. That said, my trials use sodium hydroxide to adjust the pH, not bicarb - it's faster and you only need to use a tiny amount. For those who freak out about lye (and you should, it's dangerous, don't listen to me) - realize that food grade lye is what gives pretzels their color, without it pretzels would be bread sticks. So if you've eaten a pretzel in your life, you've eaten food made with sodium hydroxide.

    That said, the maximum solubility of sodium bicarbonate in water is something like 8-10 grams per 100mls., and sodium bicarbonate is not soluble in ethanol.

    Solubilities of Sodium Carbonate and Sodium Bicarbonate in Acetone-Water and Methanol-Water Mixtures.

    image

    Which given a roughly 30% ethanol solution would be 56-70 grams per liter. But, from my experience, you can rarely get that to dissolve easily. I've dissolved it in hot water (50f) and added the hot water instead, which tends to work well - but at the expense of adding water.

    If you are adding it to higher abv, it could be why you aren't seeing it dissolve readily.

    All that said, again, I still think you guys are using WAY TOO MUCH BICARB. You don't need to take the pH all the way past 7 and jack the alkalinity through the roof to get done what you want to get done.

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  • Wow, I used 100 grams in a 50 litre strip at 30%abv. And it dissolved almost immediately, I don't think it even hit the bottom. 2 grams per litre.

  • Might be a difference here......I use calcium carbonate, not bi carb.

  • Solubility of calcium carbonate in an ethanol/water mixture is technically near nil, but will react with acids in the liquid. How much fizz do you get when you add it?

  • Let me grab the pH meter from the office later and I'll add bicarb to an ethanol water mix and post the pH at a few different g/mL points.

  • edited December 2015

    Good references to use here are the use of carbonates in wine to reduce total acidity - which is similar to what we are doing here. Difference being, we are doing it post fermentation/post-distillation, not before, and our acids are acetic, propionic, butyric, valeric, caproic, lactic, etc.

    Managing High Acidity in Grape Must and Wine

    If the TA must be lowered by only 2-3 g/L, simply use potassium bicarbonate or potassium carbonate (KHCO3 or K2CO3). If more acid needs to be removed, it is better to use the double-salt deacidification with calcium carbonate

    (TA = Total Acidity/Titratable Acidity)

    In the case of CaCO3: 0.67 g/L reduces TA by 1 g/L

  • @grim said: That said, my trials use sodium hydroxide to adjust the pH, not bicarb - it's faster and you only need to use a tiny amount.

    Grim, sounds good, how much caustic per 100lts?

  • Couldn't you just treat it like a titration?
    Throw in some cabbage juice :D

  • @grim I dont get any fizz at all. The smell changes almost immediately though.

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