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New Product: Liquid Oak Comparo

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  • I work in the food industry and part of my job is developing software to ensure that all allergens and additives are declared on the product's label. Just wondering, what additives, preservatives, colourings etc. are in this product? If these are not declared then a forced product recall must follow with possible fines after that. Sorry to add the warning, but it could be a serious matter if this is not looked into.

  • Doesn't seem like it's meant for colour addition in the first place, more like an additive to chips. I'd call a heavy char spiral or chips for quick colour and these as flavour additives to offset anything over powering from the spiral. Try that out

  • edited November 2015

    @ElectricEd said: I work in the food industry and part of my job is developing software to ensure that all allergens and additives are declared on the product's label. Just wondering, what additives, preservatives, colourings etc. are in this product? If these are not declared then a forced product recall must follow with possible fines after that. Sorry to add the warning, but it could be a serious matter if this is not looked into.

    It is wood and ethanol and water.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • edited November 2015

    @punkin said: It is wood and ethanol and water.

    That's a relief. :)

  • edited November 2015

    Liquid Oak Evaluation by Trebor

    I ran a batch of AG (90% Malted barley and 10% wheat) through my 4 plate bubbler single run @ +90%. Very tight heart cuts, aired for 1 week, diluted to 40% for these tests and then 30 minuets in my Ultrasonic Flux Capacitor.

    Filled 6 by 500ml jars with clean white aired and US spirit. Added liquid oak to 4 samples then had my wife number and record what was in each sample so that I can evaluate blind.

    • Jar 0 is the control jar with no additive
    • Jars 1 to 4 contain 1ml of Liquid Oak (different one each jar)
    • Jar 5 has 1 ml of each combined just for fun

    Day 1

    Nose - Unable to smell any difference between samples. All smell like a fresh white dog.

    Colour - The amount of oak added will have no significant impact on colour. Other methods will still be required to add colour (real oak or caramel).

    Taste - to early to report any useful feedback. If the taste profile does not change after a couple of weeks then I will look at increasing the oak as 1ml to 500ml (2ml/Ltr) may be too small to give enough effect.

    I will report back every week but may have to change the protocol if we don't get any useful results. It may be that we will get better results by using liquid oak in conjunction with dominoes for example.

    I think that this experiment should look at 2 things:

    1. is liquid oak useful in getting us to the result we are happy with quicker than the traditional methods (speed aging) and/or
    2. does liquid oak improve the product which is what I think it is being used for in the wine industry.

    Cheers.

  • Thanks mate, exactly the information and theories i was hoping would be explored.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • Update from Trebor. After 2 weeks it is obvious that liquid oak is not a game changer. It is not converting young white dog into aged whisky. I would be surprised if anyone thought it would but the purpose of these tests is to make some usefull and qualified observations.

    I have tried increasing the amounts but i can not say i am finding any benifits so far on young spirit on its own.

    I will attempt 2 new tests. 1 use known speed age techniques in conjunction with liquid oak and 2 add liquid to aged whisky as an enhancment.

    Both of these tests will take time and i will report back when i have some results.

  • The enhancment is what i was expecting, i'd think comparing an aged domino whiskey with a liquid enhanced sample of the same. I'm thinking that it may make it a bit easier to adjust flavour profiles and mouthfeel rather than use it alone.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • edited November 2015

    2 Week Update

    This has been a hard experiment so far.

    Looking at a pic of the jars, nothing has changed except the one with the single domino.

    image

    Now when looking at the jars vs tasting I honestly reckon my mind is playing games on my taste buds. The whiskey that I used already had a nice smell and taste profile raw.

    Smell and taste the domino jar and its almost ready to bottle after only 2 weeks, possibly due to the weather being warm, up to 42 degrees the other day.

    Now the liquid oak samples all have a distinct smell and they taste ok, but because its clear I don't believe what my senses are or should be telling me, it does not "look" like whiskey I normally drink.

    I'm going to have to taste test blind samples with a friend or two and write down notes.

    Then I think a mix with the domino sample to see if any flavors can show up differently.

    Too early to make a judgement call at all without getting more samples and more tasters involved.

    I may add a little distillers caramel to color some of the liquid oak samples and revisit tasting.

    It may turn out to be a fantastic product, but it also may need skilled benders to get the benefits, not sure if that is me.

    I do know a decent wine maker, I'll try to get him involved if possible.

    fadge

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  • I agree, I am unable to give useful feedback tasting liquid oak added to white dog.

    I have tried it with domino aged whisky but can't give useful feedback because the differences are too subtle for my pallet. I need to add 1ml to a shot to even notice a change. The change does not make it better just different. Nothing wrong with the enhanced sample but it hasn't made enough difference to say wow that's an improvement.

    Probably need to find a sample that is missing what liquid oak can add back to get a better result. Adding liquid oak to a good sample does not appear to make it better. Adding liquid oak to white dog does not age it, it just oaks it which on its own is of no use. Aging white spirit adds oak anyway. Too much liquid oak to well aged spirit will over oak it.

    Does anyone have some suggestions that you would like us to try?

  • Ok, honest input was what i was after and that's good. If it's not a great product for our needs then that's fine too. It's what these trials are all about. Honest feedback and product assessment from real customers.

    Thanks guys.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • edited January 2016

    A surprise update

    After doing the inital experiments and lack of useful or feedback information I had simply just left my sample jars on the shelf.

    Fast Forward 3mths or 100 days..

    I had a smell and quick taste, nothing really different from my last taste, they are all different but not really nice if that makes any sense.

    So I decided to chuck everything in one jar and perhaps add that to a much larger batch later on, so almost 5 x 1lt jars, 4 clear using liquid oak and one with a single domioe makes up close to 5lt jar.

    Gave it a quick mix and had taste, hang on whats this, so then a second one...and a third all at room temp at 35C. IT TASTES GOOD.

    Looks very pale compared to striaght dominoe jars (each side)

    image

    grab some ice in a glass, pour a glass, still tasting good, just a little pale.

    image

    At this stage I'm going to retry the liquid oak and use with dominoes aged spirit and see how it works out.
    I may need to add a drop of caramel to give it a better visual appeal, but the taste is at least equal to my 12mth aged whiskey. I would have no hesitation putting a bottle on my drinking shelf now and thats just 3mths "old".

    We may have judged or discounted this product too soon.

    I hope the other guys have another look at the product and perhaps a bit more long term and play with the combinations we have.

    @punkin gave enough in the sample bottles to do a shit load of jars or many many litres!

    Like I said, just chuked all mine in one jar with one dominoe still in it and very nice product.

    Cheers

    Fadge

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  • Ok ..several tasting tests later, I am really liking the liquid oak combo, so far I can bearly pick up vanilla, but the aged/oaked flavour is outstanding.

    I did a side by side test with another sample bottle I have have and honestly this mixed combo is much better.

    I wont sample anymore as we all know too many is not a good thing, but I will take a bottle for the drinks shelf, its that good at his early stage.

    So far with one simple experiment, but perhaps longer than the so called 2 weeks recommended, its looking positive for liquid oak.

    fadge

  • I also have the samples but have not done anymore with it. Can someone suggest a new test protocol and i will try it. I will pull some AG from a barrel and add a combo sample and then compare over time. Any othet ideas?

  • edited January 2016

    Sounds like the best course is as an adjunct for subtle tweaking of the profile of an already aged spirit, or to provide a bit of a course correction mid-stream. Having to use it in conjunction with caramel coloring? Eh.

    This was originally developed for red wine?

  • edited January 2016

    That's correct @grim. The manufacturer gave it to me in the hopes you guys would find some info.

    Sounds really promising @fadge for those with a little perseverance and the edge to go that extra step. Maybe for the regular Jose's it's not a simple thing to use, but once we get some more information and start getting some consensus on how to use it then i could look at offering it.
    This is the first time it's ever been used on spirits so we are developing the knowledge base.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • edited January 2016

    Stillspirits include liquid oak extracts in their whisky profile kits - I've used them to some effect in the dim dark past - they have a colour to them however.

    They have cedar oak, oak cask, premium french oak, and mellow oak (mellow oak is not in the kit). Not completely on topic, but for what it is, I think this kit was/is the best commercial effort to produce 'faked up' whisky that I've come across.

    And FWIW I agree with @grim. Maybe I'll have a play with a small sample or 2

  • Sorry, i mean this is the first time THIS product has been used on spirits. I still have one sample kit left i kept quiet if you are serious about having a trial. Above conditions apply.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • edited January 2016

    OK @punkin - I'm up for some tests - maybe both rum and whisky

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