Freezing grains before mashing?

dad

I like rice liquor very much. But rice becomes rather hard to separate after an on grain mash.

Also, My state grows of all the rice in U.S., rice is it's largest AG Crop. I need a rice product for PR.

A few weeks ago I got a 50# bag of Brown Rice (a find) for some new trials.

Just for jolly's we sprouted some and it took about five days to get a sprout the size of the grain. Washed this, dried it and put away for now. No news there I have sprouted rice before.

Next experiment...I remember how fruit guys freeze the fruit to break the cell structure?

I did nothing to the brown rice to prep it. No washing. I wanted the nutrients on the rice to stay put. Cooked two pounds of brown rice to a sticky state. Put it in a container and froze it.

Days later, did the normal enzyme route...boiled 5 liters of water (test size), turned heat down, added frozen rice block, melted same and got water back to 85C, SebstarHTL and a stir, stir every five minutes checking with iodine. Iodine went completely clear in about 15-20 minutes.

57C next enzyme, Sebamyl gl and again stirred for a couple of minutes every ten minutes...somewhere in this phase I realized the rice grains were gone to complete mush! I had white soup with a few hulls floating around. Before I was done with the enzyme stirring...I was stirring milk with some hulls.

The rice/starch grain was completely broken! NO GRINDING...

The OG kind of failed...looks to be headed toward about 6% ABV... I wanted 8%...looks like I didn't cook off as much water as I estimated.

Later as it went under 30C I added an already prepped EC-1118 starter. Ten hours later (next morning) I have a good ferment going with the rice hulls and some minor debris floating on top.

Now, I'll report on racking and distilling this as soon as done.

A-anyone ever dream freezing would break a grain's cell structure so completely? B-how would I accomplish this on a commercial scale?

Assuming everything else works out, I will continue enlarging next batch. But at some point bags of rice in a chest freezer won't cut it.

FullySilenced

Liquid Nitrogen or maybe Dry Ice...

jacksonbrown

So you tried the same thing with out the freezing step? My guess is the sprouting is what opened the grain up.

FullySilenced

@jacksonbrowne reread his post... says he sprouted some ... not 50 pounds... next sentence did nothing to the rice....

jacksonbrown

Just reread it it still isn't exactly clear. 'cooked to a sticky state' sounds like the hulls are already open before the freezing step.
Maybe DAD can clarify.

dad

I have done white rice, with enzymes, without freezing. The mash was a gooy mess. I lost about a third trying to rack/squeeze/filter, the solids from the liquid.

I have sprouted brown rice twice now, but used only unwashed brown rice for this mash.

I think the hulls were open from the cooking, but the rice has never disintegrated before.

I've never ground the rice. I always ended the ferment with rice, mushy rice in the other ferments that weren't frozen. That mush was very hard to get the liquid off of.

The ferment is already 90% liquid after one day.

Kapea

From: Home Brew Sake

punkin

I'd be doing the identical thing without the freezeing to confirm what you think. I'd be doing it a couple times if it was me to really make sure because it is an expensive step, but it would be a sure fire lead pipe cinch if it did make that much difference to include it.

Maybe you could look at freeze drying equipment? Bet it's not cheap, but it would freeze and take care of your storage too.

grim

How to go commercial?

Walk-in restaurant freezer. You can probably find a used unit cheap in a restaurant shut down. They are super simple prefab boxes, most are assembled out of panels and they can be broken down.

Otherwise find a restaurant that will lease you space in their freezer, or talk to a local frozen food distributor to hold a few pallets for you at a time.

dad

punkin...I've done it without freeze three times. It was always at such a loss when separating that I was getting dicouraged.

But Another batch is under way. 25 pounds for a larger ferment. Cooked in five pound lots and frozen in a chest freezer. Although I want to distill the first batch as next step.

Freeze drying could simplify lots of issues.

grim...a walk in would be easier than the chest freezer for sure. Or maybe I only do this in the winter! :D

FullySilenced

Sounds like DAD needs a centrifuge.... :D

@dad Liquid Nitrogen: The whys and hows of cooking with liquid nitrogen @ Salon

dad

The world doesn't want me to have a centrifuge...I'd be making plutonium!

FullySilenced

Just imagine how dry those grains would spin out .... ;)

punkin

I know you've done it before Dad, but i'm just saying if it were me i'd be replicating the experiment with that particular rice (brown rice unmalted) and that particular process ect in maybe a split batch and leaving out only the freezing step. But that's only me.

From my reading of your post you haven't done that.

dad

True...I haven't done it all, with this rice. I get it...this rice may have just been drier/wetter/fresher, than what I've had before. And this rice is the one I want to use long term. It came straight from the grain elevator 100 miles from farm. I can actually go there and pick it up in my truck.

Your a wise man punkin brown...

bachman

There is a guy on another forum that used a washing machine as a centrifuge. I think the consensus is to bolt it to the floor and the machine has to be new, because he could not rid the used machine of the soap

dad

Those pictures are why I don't need a centrifuge. I could probably recreate that accident on video.

crozdog

@bachman said: There is a guy on another forum that used a washing machine as a centrifuge. I think the > consensus is to bolt it to the floor and the machine has to be new, because he could not rid the used machine of the soap

I remember having tears of laughter reading Butches' post all those years ago when he did that. It still makes me grin to think about it.

dad

+1 crozdog...