Some Baby Dragon Beginner's Observations and Questions

Lovejoy

I just had an extraordinary TPW run, but I am still at the very beginning.

Baby Dragon with 4 plates, TPW wash @ 10% ABV, temp probes above the product condenser, at the cooling water outlet of the dephlegmator and product condenser. Full reflux for about 20 minutes. During the run I kept the dephlegmator temp reading at around 50°C and the product condenser outlet at around 30°C. I almost didn't have to adjust anything during the run to keep the collection with around 90% ABV at the edge between dripping and very thin flow. I left the ProCap flow directors as is, just mounted below the washer, and although I could it see drip down in the middle, the majority clearly went down the flow directors to the inner wall of the glass cylinders.

1. When the glass cylinders start to fog up later in the run, is that any indication to take note of? I thought it shows me that the hearts are coming to an end, so I switched to smaller collection jars, but it still went on and on.
2. How far down does it make sense to collect product? I stopped somewhere between 50% and 45% ABV but I somehow have the feeling that was too early, it still did not smell distinctive tailsy, it just didn't have that fresh smell of hearts any more.
3. Should I reuse what I consider heads and/or tails I collected from that run in my next one, also it will not be a TPW?
4. Any explanation why I did not reach more than 90% ABV with 4 plates and high enough reflux for a very slow product collection?
5. Is there any point in running the column in full reflux for more than 20 minutes? How to you determine the length of the full reflux phase?

All in all this run was a fantastic experience, although some errors were made (like forgetting to reduce power when the plates were loaded, which resulted in flooding the topmost bubble section and some product flow till the problem was realized).

I have proofed most of the product down to 40% ABV and filled into bottles after one night of airing, a part I kept at collection proof, and what I consider late heats I have put on French oak. :)

Anavrin

Hi Lovejoy

Sounds like your having fun, I also have a Baby CD, I have 3 CD plates and a 510mm packed section and I'm awaiting another 3 plates in the post.

Bottom sections starting to fog is a sign of tails starting to come though, and 90% is about the max running 4 plates, I also have a torpedo bubble section with a sight glass under my baby, the sight glass on the torpedo fogging is the first sign of tails, another sign is the output product rate will slow down, at this point I finish collecting whatever jar I'm on and shutdown.

Any tails/heads that don't make the cut, I put to one side for Junkahol cleaning runs, some guys will collect heads until they have enough to do a full spirit run, as it will be possible to get some more hearts from them on another run, not something I've tried myself.

I do have a question, it sounds like from your post you run straight from a 10% wash, you'll get a much more productive spirit run, if you stripped your wash first, then combined 2-3 stripped washes for the spirt run.

Also It's always best to know exactly how much alcohol you have in your boiler to start with, I find upto the first 30% can be heads and the last 20% will most probably all be tails.

As a quick rule of thumb for neutral, I find after airing my jars, making cuts and proofing to 40% I have about the same amount of 40% neutral as the calculated total alcohol in my wash, so if I start a spirit run with 35 litres of strip proofed down to 30%, it contains 10.5 litres of alcohol and I would expect to get 10.5 litres of 40% neutral when I'm done, sounds like a lot of waste and I am quite ruthless with my cuts, but I only want the cleanest neutral spirit.

Lovejoy

@Anavrin said: Any tails/heads that don't make the cut, I put to one side for Junkahol cleaning runs, some guys will collect heads until they have enough to do a full spirit run, as it will be possible to get some more hearts from them on another run, not something I've tried myself.

Don't have any plans for a junkahol run, foreshots are already in the "cleaning alc" jar, and I think I'll just throw heads and that little I collected on tails into my next run. Flushed the column with hot water the next day, patina on plates and caps doesn't look bad, so pretty much ready for the next run (when my next wash is ready to go). The backset just got thrown away.

I do have a question, it sounds like from your post you run straight from a 10% wash, you'll get a much more productive spirit run, if you stripped your wash first, then combined 2-3 stripped washes for the spirt run.

Yes? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of a column? I mean a stripping run just adds another virtual plate from what I've read, or is this about something else? Straight from wash to product with 4 plates seems to go quite well.

Also It's always best to know exactly how much alcohol you have in your boiler to start with, I find upto the first 30% can be heads and the last 20% will most probably all be tails.

Doesn't the alcoholmeter not work in a wash? Measure with wash hydrometer? I just start collecting with small glasses to identify when finished with heads, works pretty well because of that distinct smell of glue, problem is more to master the end of hearts, too early for me to comment.

As a quick rule of thumb for neutral, I find after airing my jars, making cuts and proofing to 40% I have about the same amount of 40% neutral as the calculated total alcohol in my wash, so if I start a spirit run with 35 litres of strip proofed down to 30%, it contains 10.5 litres of alcohol and I would expect to get 10.5 litres of 40% neutral when I'm done, sounds like a lot of waste and I am quite ruthless with my cuts, but I only want the cleanest neutral spirit.

I also only want the cleanest hearts, though I'm not after neutral. For me the most important is to have just the good stuff with flavor that does not give me head aches the next morning. So far I don't really care to maximize product quantity for a run, so whatever quantity of the good stuff I get.

BTW I did not blend the hearts collection jars from that fabulous TPW run, I just have them numbered and drink them for comparison. It's interesting to taste the difference from start to end of the run, but all is really good.

Do you usually blend what you collect as hearts?

FloridaCracker

I usually blend all of what I consider hearts in a neutral. For rum and whisky, some tails go in as well depending on what smells/tastes good

Anavrin

Yes, blend your hearts, also the best advice I could give anyone is to first strip each wash, don't think of stripping as simply a stage or plate in the process, stripping is one of the most important and fundermental parts of making a great spirt, you are effectively removing the good stuff from the unwanted substances in the wash.

By stripping a wash your leaving all the shit behind and collecting a much more usefull spirit that can be combined with several other strips to use as a boiler charge for a spirit run.

Plus it's a quick process, if I run my boiler with 2.4kw of power and collect everything through a 2" column I can collect at 4lt/hr, I watch the parrot and stop when the output gets down to 30% You should expect to get about 5lt of 50% ish spirit off a 25lt wash.

Then proof down to 30% for the spirit run.

punkin

Not everyone feels the same way and there are definitely more than two camps. @Sadi's my Crystal Dragon thread is a good reference for one man's view between stripped and almost every conceivable configuration in between.

Anavrin

I agree, there is more than one way to "skin a cat" so to speak.

However the post is about first observation from a beginner, it's only right to offer advice based on how the majority of people operate, and as such be seen as best practice.

Lovejoy

Not interested in stripping for now, I'm experimenting with <30 liters batches of different washes and I want to see the outcome from each.

Just had another amazing run, this time with an apple juice sugar wash @ ~8% ABV (found a whole box of already expired apple juice in the basement, seemed OK for that purpose). Same config and procedure as last time, 30 min full reflux, collection at 90% ABV, distinct apple flavor, amazing hearts with a scent of ripe apples, but not an ordinary apple brandy, more like very clean apple vodka. This is absolutely amazing! :)

It was another surprisingly easy run, dialed in RC output temp to ~50°C and PC output temp to ~30°C, resulted in product collection between dripping and thin flow, didn't have to change anything till shutdown.

Is there any point in collecting late hearts / early tails for an own spirit run? I've read it's usually done with heads, but tails always seem to be discarded?

Backset good for anything? I just threw it out.

Next is a flaky grain sugar wash, EC1118 is already busy at work. This time I think I'm going to try with 3 plates only, to see what more on flavor it gives on the hearts. But that may take a while, my washes are happily bubbling for weeks, I'm not in a hurry, and I just wait till the yeast is done.

punkin

It's a shame to throw tails out from an old potstillers perspective. If you are going to pull the unit to bits or wash it well anyway then there doesn't seem to be a reason. Some people don't like smelly tails in their columns but i'm not one of them.

Lovejoy

@punkin, so what do you suggest how far down in ABV to let it run? And what to do with tails, gather for an all tails run or just dump into next wash before run?

punkin

As a potstiller i went down to 20%. Let your patience and your sense of economy tell you. If it's half a litre of stinky crap it's not worth the time and effort, if it's three litres of stinky crap at 60-20% then it becomes worth it.
I would mix it in with the heads and other feints and add it to the next wash for sure. Opinions vary and methods are out there for every conceivable combination. I'm sure others have their views as well.