The Big Gin Thread

Kapea

I recently acquired a SD GB4. The StillDragon Gin Basket Operators Manual is hugely helpful in getting me in the ballpark for proper operation. Gin is a very complex and subjective spirit, flavor-wise and aroma-wise. The suggested starting points for weights and volumes of botanicals and base spirit in the operators manual will save you from driving down a bunch of dead ends before zeroing in on making gin that is flavored the way you like it.

Particularly helpful is the recommendation of making multiple tinctures from individual botanicals (what I call one-note-songs), and then experimenting with blending the tinctures to find the proportions that produce the flavor profile that you like best before creating your "all in one" gin basket botanicals charge.

Care must be taken to be patient, and calm one's enthusiasm for blending experiments, lest one suffer from "wine flu" the morning after said blending experiments. ;)

Moonshine

@CothermanDistilling said: where's the damn like button?

~X( %-( X_X ^#(^ b-( :-\" [-O<

CothermanDistilling

Jenever would be classified a compounded gin in the US, I believe..

I was wrong about the distilled/redistilled, after reading some forums, I now think it means what the producer started with, either grain or neutral spirits, if you bought GNS, you should be considered redistilled gin, if you made your nuetral spirits, you can call it distilled... somehow I think most everyone just uses 'distilled gin' or 'gin' as their class...

CFR5.27 (formulas)

(j) The production of gin by—

(1) Redistillation over juniper berries and other natural aromatics, or the extracted oils of such, of spirits distilled at or above 190 degrees of proof, free from impurities, including spirits of such a nature recovered by redistillation of imperfect gin spirits; and

(2) Mixing gin with other spirits;

(k) The treatment of gin by—

(1) Addition or abstraction of any substance or material other than pure water after redistillation in a manner that would change its class and type designation; and

(2) Addition of any substance or material other than juniper berries or other natural aromatics, or the extracted oils of such, or pure water to the spirits, before or during redistillation, in a manner that would change its class and type designation;

CFR 5.22 (Standards of identity)

(c) Class 3; gin. ‘‘Gin’’ is a product obtained by original distillation from mash, or by redistillation of distilled spirits, or by mixing neutral spirits, with or over juniper berries and other aromatics, or with or over extracts derived from infusions, percolations, or maceration of such materials, and includes mixtures of gin and neutral spirits. It shall derive its main characteristic flavor from juniper berries and be bottled at not less than 80° proof. Gin produced exclusively by original distillation or by redistillation may be further designated as ‘‘distilled’’. ‘‘Dry gin’’ (London dry gin), ‘‘Geneva gin’’ (Hollands gin), and ‘‘Old Tom gin’’ (Tom gin) are types of gin known under such designations.

Kapea

I am one to do a lot of research before spending money. I'm not cheap. I'll spend what it takes to get what I want. I just want to find the best value for my money. Research pays.

Researching gin botanical suppliers in the States I found Monterey Bay Spice Company. These folks have the best selection in stock, best prices by far, and will ship the most economical way possible, including flat rate boxes - you choose the shipping method.

Joe Bob says, "Check 'em out!"

Kapea

Look at what arrived today! Less than $26 for the lot (plus $11.95 for freight)!

TheMechWarrior

Nice haul!

Moonshine

What a nice selection of spices!

googe

I've found gin at 48% compared to 40% is a totally different world, the citrus notes at 48% are so.much more developed.

luckyliqueur

I've never seen Orris root in anything other than powder.

My gin is made at 45%.

Myles

Are you guys talking product ABV, or boiler charge?

googe

For me, single run kale wash, botanicals in bag in keg neck,take off at 90%, diluted to 48%.

Kapea

@luckyliqueur said: I've never seen Orris root in anything other than powder.

I went with c/s (cut and sieved) instead of powder to keep from plugging up the fine holes in my gin basket.

So far (and this seems to work pretty well), I charge my boiler with 3x distilled azeotrope that has been diluted to 20% in the boiler for the infusion run. Collection starts out at around 85%. I collect down to 20%. The aggregate strength turns out to be around 55% all mixed. That is pretty tasty.

I've tried diluting to 43% (the traditional 86 proof for gin), but I like it better at 55%. Diluting down to 86 proof after collection and resting for a few days seems to mute the botanicals too much. I'm going to try a lower abv boiler charge to see if I can hit 86 proof right off of the Carter head.

I've just been experimenting with locally available juniper and coriander so far. Mixing a 70/30 blend of 24g/L juniper with 12g/L coriander is pretty nice, but lacks complexity and is evolving in flavor pretty quickly. The coriander seems to hold up well, but the juniper seems to be losing its more volatile pine notes.

Now that I have fine tuning and fixant botanicals in my hot little hands the real experimenting begins!

Smaug

Making me thirsty Kapea. Your speaking Jeff's language now.

Kapea

Stop on by and have a martini any time @Smaug !

crozdog

good work @kapea - fun time ahead!

Kapea

You're invited too @crozdog. You and @Smaug have been very helpful in avoiding those first wrong paths.

I am running an angelica root only "one note song" run as I write this.

I think I enjoy assembling the pieces/parts and setting up the spirit and botanical charges as much as any other part of the process. It's kinda like playing with my train set when I was a young'un.

Moonshine

Reserve another seat, @Kapea, I'm coming too! Oh wait, wrong side of the planet? Need to dig a tunnel first... 8-}

Lloyd

You are all invited to my place but it's BYOB :D

Kapea

The cassia cinnamon only "one note song" can stand on its own! The first 500mL out of a 2g cassia bark charge in the gin basket came off at 70% and tastes amazing! Yum!

Kapea

Here are my notes from the cassia infusion pilot run:

Joelle #4

2/27/2015

Configuration:

• Half barrel sanke keg boiler
• Carter head mounted to torpedo - no plates, no deflegmator
• 2" small shotgun product condenser mounted to carter head outlet

Still charge:

 600 mL azeotrope  
2250 mL filtered rainwater

Gin basket charge:

2g cassia cinnamon bark cut into small pieces
   from Monterey Bay Spice Company

Heat input:

• High heat up - 11 minutes to get product flow
• T +11 minutes to first drip
• T +19 minutes to collect first 200mL
• T +25 minutes to collect first 500mL
• Burner at 1/4" blue tip flame - lower than VM running straight wash.
• Decreased heat one time at the beginning of the run to slow output rate

First 500mL @ 70%
Second 300mL @ 40%
Last 160mL @ 18%

• 960mL total - aggregate strength - 55%
• Drained ~ 125mL from bottom of carter head
• Runtime ~ 45 minutes from fire in to fire out

Tastes fucking awesome!

Kapea

My notes looked neater than that. For some reason the return key does not create a line break when you post comment. It does in the text entry field, but the line break goes away when you post it.

Double return creates a paragraph break just fine (like this).

captainshooch

2 spacess and return for a new line Kapea

punkin

Yes, double space for a line break.
fixed for you.

Moonshine

Some more fixing, looking good now?

punkin

showoff :))

Kapea

Thanks for the help guys. The modifications look good. I've not used markdown before.

The T +(X) minutes notations are total time counting up from T = 0 at fire in. Could also be called MET (mission elapsed time). A way to gage consistent heat input from one run to the next.

With the juniper and coriander infusion runs (Joelle1 and Joelle2) I did twice the boiler charge and ended up with almost two liters of product for each one. That went as smooth as the seat on a silk suit.

With the angelica root and cassia infusion runs (Joelle3 & 4) I did not want 2 liters of product each, so I cut the boiler charge in half. I was not sure how my half barrel (58.6L) boiler would handle the 2.85L charge. That went as smooth as the seat on a silk suit too. An advantage to running propane is not having to worry about keeping the electric element submerged.

Now I'm going to do a licorice root run (Joelle5) with the same boiler charge and gin basket charge as Joelle3 & 4.

Then comes the fun part. Taking my cue from @crozdog 's recommendations in the Gin Operator's Guide, the dosing for orris root and bitter orange peel is around a quarter gram per liter. That will amount to little more than a couple of specks in the bottom of the gin basket. That ought to be interesting...

(I have a laboratory balance that has tenth of a milligram resolution that I can use for weighing botanicals)

punkin

What's to stop you doing a full boiler charge and changing the baskets out a few times mid run when the sample is collected?

Seems with the addition of a condensor or even stopping and starting the flame you could save a lot of fucking around.

Kapea

I'm creating stock solutions to draw aliquots from for blending.

These are individual infusions that I am using for blend tastings, e.g. 25mL cassia + 25mL angelica + 25mL coriander + 25mL of juniper to make a 100mL martini (mit aut fermouth).

I'm trying to get each botanical in an infusion by itself, at 55%, and at the dosing rate (in grams per liter) as recommended by crozdog in the operators manual.

24.00 g/L juniper  
12.00 g/L coriander  
 2.00 g/L anjelica  
 2.00 g/L cassia  
 2.00 g/L licorice  
 0.25 g/L orris  
 0.25 g/L bitter orange

Once I get close to the blend I like best I will start making all-in-one gin basket charges for full on gin runs. I suspect the all-in-ones will be a bit different than the blends - synergistic reactions in the Carter head... and all like that.

Bombay Sapphire watch out! I'm a gunnin' for ya... :))

Kapea

If I do a full boiler charge and do basket change-outs, the proof of the distillate will be lower as the run progresses, and there will be residual flavor carried over from one basket to the next. I'm trying to get each stock solution as close to pure individual botanical and 55% as possible.

(plus I really enjoy taking Joelle apart, cleaning her, and putting back together again)

punkin

Yes i understand what you are doing. Putting the basket on after the Dash would aleviate the proof problem (not that it would be that different on a full charge for the hearts, but you'd still have some tiny amount of smearing i spose.

Plus you wouldn't get to play with your silver bits as much.