DIY Power Controller

captainshooch · 11 October 2013 11:32PM

Small price to pay for good equipment

Lloyd · 15 October 2013 02:29PM

**Controller stickers have shipped now to USA and in a day or two we'll express some to Punkin/Australia. **

If you want one just send a stamped, self addressed envelope to your distributor and he'll get one to you very soon. Or mention it on your next order to be included free.

If you need more than one, please ask. These cost next to nothing but I could only express a few; many more will arrive to your distributor by sea freight in 2 or 3 months.

Gotta admit it put some nice lipstick on my DIY controller box. I can sure see it would be easier to apply the sticker and then drill the pot hole instead of trying to center the sticker afterwards... but if I can do it then you can do it. Maybe you can do it better because I got a bubble under the sticker that was a bear to smooth out. Thinking it's best to work from one side to the other but with the center hole already drilled its hard not to focus on that.
The knob covered most of the defect, so its OK, right?

If your SD DIY controller already has the hole drilled then you should ask for 2 stickers. I screwed up the first one so bad I needed another. Second one looks the stuff though with the knob attached.

CothermanDistilling · 15 October 2013 02:47PM

I know you already have them made, but if you get the backing paper split on the next run, a person could position the sticker, then hold one half in place and remove the other half's backing paper...

punkin · 15 October 2013 03:09PM

DIY kits are now stocked in Australia. They'll be listed and priced during the week. stickers will be here later next week, early the week after.

Lloyd · 15 October 2013 03:32PM

@CothermanDistilling said: I know you already have them made, but if you get the backing paper split on the next run, a person could position the sticker, then hold one half in place and remove the other half's backing paper...

Too late, you should have told me sooner. Makes good sense though, just didn't think of it in the blur of things.

Spokerider · 16 October 2013 04:08PM

@Lloyd said: I stock 2w 470K ohm as the SSR manufacturer suggests on page 2 of this thread.

This seems to work well with 220~240 volts but do you need a different pot if controlling a 110~120 volt element?

I am wondering the same thing.....is a different pot required for controlling a 1440w 120v element?

Law_Of_Ohms · 17 October 2013 09:47AM

no

crozdog · 17 October 2013 11:12AM

I agree with LoO. the spec of the pot is what the SSR control circuit needs. it has nothing to do with the supply voltage

nvnovrts · 17 October 2013 02:22PM

I got two words. Big Pa. As far as watching the Amp/Volt meter, you should be watching the ABV in the Parrot, the exhaust water temp on the Deflag and vapor temp above the Deflag. The power needed to get there is what it is and will most likely very from set-up to set-up.

Now if there was a thermo probe that could be wired into the vapor temp and the power controller... Or the cooling water for the reflag.

This is a good read.

bentstick · 18 October 2013 01:03AM

@nvnovrts said: I got two words. Big Pa. As far as watching the Amp/Volt meter, you should be watching the ABV in the Parrot, the exhaust water temp on the Deflag and vapor temp above the Deflag. The power needed to get there is what it is and will most likely very from set-up to set-up.

Now if there was a thermo probe that could be wired into the vapor temp and the power controller... Or the cooling water for the reflag.

This is a good read.

:)>- yes sir :-c

Myles · 19 October 2013 03:07PM

Folks you need to pay attention to the datasheets. This is just an example but the United Automation PSR 25 says this:

Potentiometer: 250K 1W @ 230Vac OR 100K 1W @ 110Vac.

The potentiometer is part of the trigger timing circuit so it is a freq dependent device.

Also you should measure the voltage between the element legs, and the current in 1 leg from the controller to the element.

BanjoInWA · 19 October 2013 11:08PM

Hi, I've built a 3", 4 plate column (flute). I've been running it successfully with propane for quite some time now. As the weather gets colder I need to bring it inside out of the cold and have decided to make the leap to electric. I have very little electrical knowledge but have read and studied many, many threads on the subject. (I've been scolded before for not researching before asking questions) I settled on this DIY kit. Two things I wanted to add to the kit was 1) a shut off at the controller. 2) a bypass switch to be used for initial heat up. I consulted an electrician friend of mine and wired it up. I have included a drawing of how it is wired:

As I was building it, I saw what I thought might be a potential problem area. I've got 2 wires going to one lead of the element. One from the three way switch and one from the load side of the SSR. In my simple mind this would "energize" the SSR when running it in bypass/full power mode. Thus negating the purpose of the bypass. Do I simply not have a good understanding of how the SSR works or I am correct in seeing a potential problem? I have yet to plug it in and test it as I wanted a better understanding. I am unable to consult my electrician friend until next week so I thought I'd throw it out into the forums for some advice.

Myles · 20 October 2013 02:23AM

Use a switch that cuts both of the hot wires, so that you provide live supplies to EITHER the SSR or the element.

When you are in by-pass mode it would be better if there were no supply connected to the SSR at all. ON-OFF-ON

BanjoInWA · 20 October 2013 02:47AM

Thank you myles for your response. Could you be more specific as to what switch to use and where one obtains it. Is this a special order thing or can one be purchased at an electrical supply house?

It seems as though either way you do it there will still be two wires going to at least one of the terminals on the element. I guess my limited understanding is preventing me from seeing how this should work.

Myles · 20 October 2013 05:24PM

There are different ways to do this but one uses a 3 Pole Double Throw (3PDT) switch. That is a switch that has 2 output positions for each of the 3 input circuits. You use the third circuit to route one of the lines from the element.

In this example the UP position uses the SSR and the DOWN position not only fires the element directly, it also removes both supplies to the SSR. The blue link between the middle and bottom contacts is a bridge - it does not connect to the red supply to the SSR.

The brown wire to the element is either red or blue dependent on the switch position.

If you were to use an ON - OFF - ON switch it gives you a centre position where everything is off.

Stinger · 20 October 2013 07:32PM

This might be a suitable switch: NKK SW3823/U Rocker Switch,Maintained,DPDT,30A

Lloyd · 21 October 2013 03:50AM

@Stinger said: This might be a suitable switch: NKK SW3823/U Rocker Switch,Maintained,DPDT,30A

That does look good @Stinger

Myles · 21 October 2013 07:30AM

You also have the option of rotary switches which can be quite useful. This example is for 20A but there are a wide range of these with as many poles / circuits as you could ever wish for.

Rotary Switches 3P changeover cam switch w/off ,20A Ie

Stinger · 21 October 2013 10:51AM

Here's a rotary switch rated at 690V 32A. Would this work OK with 240v?

Lloyd · 21 October 2013 12:20PM

Dang, a rotary switch is even cooler than a rocker. Gonna be another item on my list!

Give me a few days to gather parts and I'll try to offer up a step by step. But my aim may not be the same as everyone else... my element choice is either 2000 watt or 2000 watt with nothing in between so a fan is not really needed and heavy service wire is also not required. Also, I have ~230 or so volts on one wire plus a neutral and a ground. What I build for me may not be directly useful in USA with the split phase of 120 volts on 2 legs plus neutral and ground.

A bit of history... about 2 and a half years ago or so I wanted to build a SSR based controller. There was not a lot of information about them on the distilling forums at the time so I asked the guy at the hardware market to wire it up for me. After a few phone calls to the SSR factory he built a very rudimentary working model and plugged it in. It fried. More calls, another build and another fry.
AH HA!! That wire goes there! And its been working ever since.
Know that this guy sold and tinkered with electronics all day, every day. So if you toast your first DIY then you are in good company.

Today there is so much more information and you can buy the parts through your SD distributor for FAR less than I paid for mine just a couple of years ago. I paid about $30 for each SSR toasted, even though I wasn't the one to plug it in. In USA you can get a SD DIY for about $31 that includes all the basic parts needed. That's about what many companies charge just for the plastic box.

Anyway, hoping to do this soon but this is my busy time of year as we are trying to get stocks built up to carry us through the Chinese new year month-long shutdown. So if I'm slow to get it done please forgive. Most folks don't know that our factories stop taking new orders in January and some even in December in an effort to "clear the books". Or last boiler order for the year is being placed now. China shuts down for most of February and when we reopen in March there is a backlog of new orders so SD is put into the queue with everyone else. With luck we get products ready to ship end of April and with a month or two of sea freight shipping that means the first new products begin to flow around June or so. This is a six month disruption in the supply chain that we face every year. It does not get easier each year!

Thinking perhaps I could start a new thread on the DIY build and get all of your comments as the pictures are posted and use that to construct a new DIY manual. (Then ask one of the mods to remove the thread and simply post the manual?) Thoughts?

Please remember that the DIY is meant to be simple and low cost. DIY2 or DIY3 could be for more complex builds that include meters, switches and even a cooling fan.

CatfishJim · 21 October 2013 02:03PM

I would like to buy a do it your self kit with a little larger box. I wonder if this is possible?

CothermanDistilling · 21 October 2013 03:35PM

Something like this would sell well, I believe...

Myles · 21 October 2013 05:18PM

I use a slightly smaller version of a wall box similar to that. In the UK it does add a bit to the cost but I think it is worth it. I have the parts ready to build a 9kW version which I will put up later when I get back from my current location. ;)

Law_Of_Ohms · 21 October 2013 07:53PM

How about this.

I'm considering offering a controller all pre-wired to people in Australia.

It wont be cheap, most likely ~$120 ea

awesome · 22 October 2013 09:33AM

Tell us more about it

fnulnu · 22 October 2013 02:43PM

Kind of reminds me of this.

Lloyd · 2 November 2013 05:55AM

Put this together using the medium size box. With fan, ammeter and selector toggle switch.
Switch to left for full on, bypasses the SSR. Switch right and current runs through SSR controller.
Toggle in center position and no current flows to the element but the fan and ammeter stay on.

As LoO pointed out, there would be no heat buildup from the SSR in bypass mode but it was easier for me to wire it so the fan is always on.

olddog · 2 November 2013 07:27AM

Nice compact build.

OD

captainshooch · 2 November 2013 09:39AM

Nice job @Lloyd, knowing accurate power input to the element sure beats guessing.

Moonshine · 2 November 2013 10:04AM

@Lloyd, very nice, will this be the new DIY Controller Kit?

Welcome!

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