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DIY Power Controller

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  • So far as I can tell any of the encapsulated controllers - like the SD ones or any other variant of the PSR-25 etc, WILL CONTINUE TO WORK if they get hot.

    All you are doing is shortening their life expectancy. This is a judgement call. They will all fail eventually, it can't be avoided.

    In my own controller I use a 16 Amp Burst Fired Regulator on a 3 kW boiler (encapsulated just like the SD version PSR, but a different brand). The other half is a component based 40A circuit (one of Pintoshine's kits) which I believe is actually Pulse Width Modulated, but is essentially a PSR-40.

    It is overkill because it is used on a 3 kW element with another 3 kW element on a simple switch. (2 stills controlled from the same controller - only 1 at a time)

    All these controllers will switch off the power completely. You have an input threshold to cross before the power comes ON, from which point you can reduce power a bit. Reduce too far and the controller switches OFF.

    For example on a scale of 0 to 10. It switches on with an input of 3. Once it is on, you can reduce the input to 1.5, but drop to 1 and it will switch off. Once it is off you have to get it back to 3 again before it will switch back on.

  • edited September 2013

    Quoting Myles :

    _I am a bit concerned about this topic. There are many ways to wire these devices so that they will work BUT ONLY ONE that is recommended by the manufacturer.

    These are designed for single phase circuits. That is one LIVE wire (110 volt or 240 volt), 1 NEUTRAL (0 volt) wire and an Earth (0 volt ) wire.

    What is important is that of the two SUPPLY wires, the Neutral (0 volt) goes directly to the unit, the other Live (110 volt or 240 volt) goes to the load and then the unit._

    Now that I got my controller working and being really fond of it, I'm confused again !! Mine is powered by 2 110 live cables, is this wrong ?

  • Not exactly wrong and it will work, but it is not recommended. Lots of folks run it like that. I assume you are in the USA with a split single phase.

    When I asked the manufacture specifically about your situation, they said they would only recommend using 2 controllers - 1 in each leg. Each would then be wired with 1 connection to neutral.

    In effect you circuit behaves like a 2 phase circuit with 2 phases 180 degrees apart. Your configuration works from zero output to 100% output I think. You may find the life of the controller is a bit reduced - only time will tell.

  • smaug _ The wire fits the stress Relief that cane with the DIY controller kit but the wire doesn't fit the stress Relief that Came with theeelement gaurd kit that one is Smaller , Itried the Bigger relief in the gaurd kit but doesn't fit the hole. That why I assumed I needed to use smaller wire for that part . Any suggestions?

  • Yes , I had a bunch of element guard kits that were accidentally packed with a smaller strain relief. Bump me an email please so that I can take care of this for you.

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • @ Myles : I'm in Honduras, 2 X 110V + neutral. Just was a bit worried about safety. Anyway, it works like a charm. Thanks.

  • Think of three states of the controller and the difference between switching one leg or switching both legs of the split 240V we have in the USA:

    When the controller is unplugged or switched off with a circuit disconnect, there is no difference.

    When the controller is plugged in and live, and the element is powered, there is no difference.

    When the controller is powered, but the element is off, if you only have one leg switched, the other is 'hot'...

    So for safety, if you treat the system as though the element is powered even when the controller is powered but the element is not, you have every bit of safety you would have when the element is powered.

    Nearly all new AC units, water heaters, dryers, etc that work on 240V with USA type voltage are now wired with one leg not going through the switch, they save a few pennies on the contactor. Yes, your household water heater in the USA always has one lead at 120V unless you flip the breaker.

    My current brewery controller has SSR's for each 120V leg of the 240. I have three outlets, so that is 6 SSR's, and they heat up my panel pretty good.. if I did it again, I would only likely have one SSR per outlet, and the other leg would stay hot, but that is only when the circuit is live, and since my panel has a contactor in it, both legs are off if the contactor is off... I can run all processes without the contactor on to test them, no high voltage leaves the panel... this is controlled by a e-stop push button, so if someone has not pulled out the e-stop to reset it, there is no possible way for voltage to get to either lead of the heater elements.

    I am an electrical engineer and not going to tell you what to do, but If I were building a controller, I would have a contactor (or manual disconnect near the receptacle the controller plugs in) cut off both legs of the 240 and a single SSR control a single leg for the operation of the unit... If you are using the DIY controller, then maybe a spa panel, RV panel, other disconnect where you plug the controller in...

  • That is a good description and it seems reasonable to me from a safety perspective.

    Now let me just state 1 thing. From the manufacturers point of view when you have such a circuit live but the controller is turned off, you are actually applying 110v to both supply terminals of the PSR, instead of 0v to 1 and live to the other.

    Now how much of an issue this really is I wouldn't like to say - clearly it will still work, as can be seen by the many that are in use. Perhaps they just wish to sell more controllers!!!

  • Correct, and anyone that has hooked up 120VAC LED indicators (one leg to neutral) to show when power is applied to their element has noticed that when a load is not applied to the SSR (element unplugged from controller), the LED illuminates, indicating that with SSR's, leakage current exists. Now, I have not tested to see if it will shock you, but assuming it does... another reason a manual switch/disconnect/contactor is a great idea when using SSR's...

  • Smaug I used benstiller idea with the dremel and now it should work. Any ideas on the size of wire I should use for a 1500 watt 120 v if I decide to go that route?

  • edited September 2013

    I would likely prefer to default to # 10s no matter what. But I am pretty sure # 12s would handle it.

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • Just work out the default domestic wiring for the current, and then go up by 1 wire size. This is just to account for the extended run times.

    After all a 3 kW boiler is going to be in use for a lot longer than a 3 kW kettle!!!

  • I'm going to preface this post by saying that I will have a professional electrician wire this for me when it actually happens!!

    I have a basic understanding of electronics, but I do want to know a bit more before I approach this guy and take up more of his time.

    So...my specs are 120 volts (US) with 20 amp circuits and 3-prong outlets. I plan on using this with a 1500w element.

    My instincts tell me that it should be ok as long as the circuit can support the load, and the controller can handle the amperage.

    In this case, 1500w should be ok for a 120v/20amp circuit, and it is definitely under the 40amp max for this controller (I'm calculating 12.5 amps).

    Are there any particular dangers with using a controller rated for 240 volts on a 120 volt circuit, provided the amperage stays in the safe range?

    Thanks you guys...this site is truly awesome.

  • no problem with a 240v rated controller running with 110v

  • Thank you fine sir!

  • @ Smaug. Which Cord grip is the smaller One. PG 13.5 or PG 16 ?

  • Which one Comes with the element gaurd kit ?

  • PG 16 is with the kit. Some PG 13 did accidently get packed with the kit

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • But will the PG 16 fit in the hole ? hole is too Small in mine

  • So the 16 is Bigger?

  • The pg 16 accomodates the # 10 service cord better

    StillDragon North America - Your StillDragon® Distributor for North America

  • edited September 2013

    Look close @Hollis, the PG19 will not fit the hole on the element guard.

    Going to need to work on that because we vend an incredible number of element guards now. I'm looking at needing to make 2 different end caps for the element guard.
    The PG13.5 works well in Australia where 1 wire carries the 220V hot and PG16 is acceptable. In USA with 2 wires that each carry one leg of 110V plus extra heavy cord insulation the PG16 is sometimes not adequate and PG19 is desired.
    That means that the end cap hole cannot be universal. PG13.5 is not compatible with PG19. It with fall through the bigger hole.

    I need a pow wow with the SD distributors to work out the logistics of offering 2 different element guard end caps. Big hole/small hole.

    Also, wondering if there is interest in the more expensive metal cable gland/cord grip/strain relief fitting. They look nicer but of course they cost more than the plastic grips.

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  • Emptyglass uses a lot of our guards on his builds, i'll ask him what his preferences are. We definately don't need the huge ones as very few people here have access to the curcuits you guys have in the states. Normal household curcuit is rated to 10 amps, with 15 amps a heavy duty specialist socket in some sheds.

    StillDragon Australia & New Zealand - Your StillDragon® Distributor for Australia & New Zealand

  • @Smaug As promised, pics of the controller box powered up during vinegar wash. A big thanks to you and everyone who patiently posted info on this thread to make it easy for us to get'er done right!!! In a few days, when the yeasties finish their work, I will make a sugar wash run and provide you feedback on the temp comparison between my bi-metal thermo on top of the 180 and the SD on the down side. Do not expect much diff. but the mechanical will never need batts. I do love having the ability to use SD temps, easy to use and very handy and reasonably priced compared to bi-metal therms. Notice the pots are at about 50% each and 11.7-8 amps and I get 22.4 amps out of each one at 100% . If I could only find a way to tell the yiesties to hurry up and get it over with..

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  • edited September 2013

    @Lloyd, so you see what I was talking about the bigger one wouldn't fit the hole so I Just used demand and modified the smaller One and now it perfect Smug sent me another one but it too by for the hole too I ordered / of each Size just to see the difference. yes the metal ones do look awesome. I Really do think yall for all the help I Gonna have. mine up and Running in 2 weeks

  • edited September 2013

    @captainshooch, get you Some hightemp silicone food grade hose from any brew sito andput it on your Parrot to your bottles been doing it for years. that hose is round 2.50 a foot here in the states

  • Hooch. whatknd of plastic box is that you are using in your setup ? I boright a 12 X/2 Junction box but don't like it

  • @Hollis, the BUD boxes come from Solutions Direct, USA (google it) they are part# 22245 and measue 13"x13"x7" and unfortunatelly they are not cheap. about $60.00 ea and you have to buy a carton wich means 2 boxes plus shipping but I think well worth it.

  • Cart Just by a single ?

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