DIY Power Controller

crozdog

@captainshooch, @cothermandistilling is on the money saying you need to measure the voltage & current at the element to determine the power used by the element. You get good measurements before the SSR as you are measuring the "pure" input sine wave. After the SSR the waveform is modified (see below explanation) which will cause meters not designed to deal with various waveforms to output "funky" readings, so you are NOT within a couple of volts.

He is also right to mention AC etc & that is is a different beast to DC he is right that a couple of volts will be dropped but the issue is the output of a phase angle controller is a modified sine wave - the amount of modification depends on the phase angle that the SCR fires.

See this diagram for 2 waveforms 1 at 40% & 1 at 90%:

Better still scroll down this page and you will see 3 graphs for 3 different firing angles (nb the output waveform is on the top of each graph). You will see that only portions of the input sine wave actually gets to the load. So if you calculated or measured the output RMS voltage (ie the voltage that actually performs work) it will be less than the input voltage as only a portion of the full sine wave gets applied to the load.

The portion of the waveform that doesn't make it to the output is dissipated as heat - hence the need for heatsinks & ventilation!

hope that makes sense.

captainshooch

@crozdog, Yes it does. Thanks. Learn something new every day and like you said earlier having a good reference point on the amount of power used on previos runs that makes it a lot easier than looking at the height of a propane flame.

fadge

@captainshooch said: crozdog, Yes it does. Thanks. Learn something new every day and like you said earlier having a good reference point on the amount of power used on previos runs that makes it a lot easier than looking at the height of a propane flame.

Agreed, I have a cheap ebay digital volt/amp display in my controller, I assume its NOT very accurate, but I can "dial" in the same setting on each run or adjust as required.

Stripping I run a much power as I can without puking, but "11 amps" or so seems good for my setup during a proper dash run.

Its just one step up from using numbers on the knob to work out power/heating levels.

Chuck more money and a better build into the whole controller, inc boiler temp gauges and then it may be accurate.

For my personal usage the KISS system works fine, after all for a lot of us its a converted keg sitting in a shed running at all sorts of days and times, temps up and down water cooling the same, with washes that are slightly different each batch, cuts done on each little batch, Its a small wonder at all if us backyarders could ever get a consistence product!

fadge

moscca

@crozdog, I found this one:

MV15 Digital Voltmeter (PDF)

But it is for 1 phase 2 wire network, would it work with a 2 phase 220V network?

Thanks.

captainshooch

@fadge my next run will be timed in order to be able to compare my controller settings with the power company KWH meter, and at the end of the day I should have a pretty darn good idea of power used. It has gotten so cold here that I was kinda hoping I could fire the propane one more time just to stay warm :D

mister406

I do not think it will. it only means you have 10 more amp capacity than the controller I have exactly the same set=up and I,m kinda glad. It means the controller will kick off before your circuit does

PBRStreetgang

Thanks, @mister406. In those terms, that makes sense - the 50A is the upper limit for the breaker. If you're running the same/similar set up without issue, I'll move forward with my build. :-)

PBR

crozdog

@mosca, nice find. Any idea on $$? I am sorry to admit but I am not familiar with the American 220v 2 phase system. I suspect it won't work with 220 2 phase based on the linked data sheet. Try contacting them on selectautomation@airtelmail.in

moscca

@crozdog said: mosca, nice find. Any idea on $$? I am sorry to admit but I am not familiar with the American 220v 2 phase system. I suspect it won't work with 220 2 phase based on the linked data sheet. Try contacting them on selectautomation@airtelmail.in

amazon : less then 40$

captainshooch

I was going to make a detailed run to compare my power consumption estimates with the actual reading on the meter but I got to thinking and I remembered I had posted something just like that a couple of months ago on another thread. It took me a while but I found it. Here it is:

How much does it cost to run a Dash 2 on Electric Elements

I recently had a new meter installed for the power supply at my shed and I took the opportunity so see roughly how much does it cost me to make a run on the Dash 2 with electric elements. Started with 13 or so gallons at approx 30 ABV into my 26 Gal milk can. I was ready to start at 9 am and the following is a summary of what took place and how much it cost me.

09:00am - Two 5500W elements on at 14A each for initial warm up
10:00am - One element off and one element down to 10A to compress fores,
          all plates fully loaded
10:40am - Started collecting fores slowly, decreased dephlegmator flow a bit
          and increased condenser flow
11:00am - One element up to 12.2A and decrease deph flow some more to
          collect heads and hearts, condenser flow at max
03:00pm - Finished hearts one element up to 13.5A to collect tails, closed
          dephlegmator flow
04:00pm - All finished shut all power off

During the whole run I also ran a March 809 pump for recirculating cooling water and an AC/DC power supply to run the fan on a car radiator for return water cooling, as well as overhead lights and a 19 cu./ft. refrigerator/freezer where I store enzymes and yeast and such, sometimes a beer or two as well. Before starting the meter was reading 85 kWh, and at the end around 4:30pm it read 112 kWh for a total use of 27 kWh. We pay $0.13 USD per kWh so it only cost me $3.51. A whole lot cheaper than propane. Hope this is helpful.

Between 9:00am and 11:00am the voltage was 244 and from 11:00am to 4:00pm the voltage had gone up a bit to 246. When I apply my not so politically correct math I come up with a rough total power used by the still at 24.59 kWh, add to that the other equipment running and it sure is pretty darn close to what the meter read at 27 kWh used.

I call it close enough for me. So regardless of what is really going on with the SSR and the wave form, at the end of the day kWh's used is kWh's I have to pay. I sure do not wish to complicate my life and "KISS" is best for me as well @fadge. Can anyone either confirm or dispute if this is even close? Just wanting to learn as I go and thanks in advance to all that have contributed their knowledge.

Meter at 09:00am

Meter at 04:30pm

Hooch :)>-

EdInNH

@moscca said: But it is for 1 phase 2 wire network, would it work with a 2 phase 220V network?

@moscca,

The US household electrical power is single phase 220/240v.

The twist is that the power is center tapped with the center tap referenced to ground. With this power distribution system the voltage between the two hot legs is 220/240 and the voltage between each of the two hot legs and a ground referenced common is 120 v.

This is a long way to answer that the meter should work.

There is the issue that a True RMS measurement of the voltage and current would be far better.

Ed

captainshooch

@moscca I lived in Brazil back in 1990 for a while and nothing we brought in from the US would work because of the different power required/versus available. I am not sure exactly where you are but I do strongly reccomend to get in touch with a local sparky and ask for his advise before you buy anything to make sure it is going to work. Oh BTW, how about that tamarind drink recipe from your Mrs.? :)

cunnyfunt

29.4ct (AUD) per kW here.

moscca

oops, forgot that !!! Just phoned her : 1 lbs tamarindo without cask leaving for +/- 10 min in water. It becomes soft. Put it in a strainer/screen and remove it with your fingers or with a spoon till all the liquid is trough. Then add water till you have 2 L in total. Add some sugar.

Cheers.

moscca

@captainshooch & @EdInNH, I just asked it on an electrician at my work and he said it would work out fine !

captainshooch

@moscca Thanks for the recipe and great news about your meter working :-bd

elroy303030

I just hooked up my controller, and I have a problem. When I turn it on the controller has to be on 100% on to be off? 0% is full on. I have switched wires on ssr and it didn't help. The other side is black in and black out. White is connected together. I cane figure it out. Thanks for the help C

@Law_Of_Ohms said: Here is the Aussie diagram

olddog

just switch the wires from the pot eg: 3 to4 and 4 to 3 you have wired that section backwards

OD

elroy303030

@olddog said: just switch the wires from the pot eg: 3 to4 and 4 to 3 you have wired that section backwards

I did that, no affect. I'm thinking I might have them hooked up to wrong connectors. There are 3 together and a ground. I'm going to put a ohm meter tomorrow?

olddog

Two connectors are marked with a wavy line symbol, these should be connected to your power connections, the two on the other side of the SSR are either marked with the resistance requirement or can be marked pos neg these connect to your pot.

OD

olddog

Sorry I meant SSVR not SSR

crystal_skull

Just move the outer cable on the pot to the other leg.

elroy303030

@crystal_skull said: Just move the outer cable on the pot to the other leg.

I moved it today, after I checked all connection and everything works perfect now. Next step is to make a run and figure out how it works. I've been using gas so long, I'm not sure how everything will react.

Thanks for the help!

Lloyd

@elroy303030 you're going to love the fine control that electric give you, and the repeatable results.

elroy303030

@Lloyd said: elroy303030 you're going to love the fine control that electric give you, and the repeatable results.

Did a run tonight. I love the control! Way better than gas! Steady temps and easy adjustments.

beyaz_kopek

I made a mistake which has been noted before, 0 is 100% and reverse. Haven't opened it up to try reversing it.
With concerns for heat I drilled a 48mm hole and a 23mm hole. Put a 50mm x 10mm 12v fan in to draw air from the 48mm hole. Bought a panel mount dc power jack to match a 12v wall transformer I had around. The fan fits in the small case if you are not worried about the heatsink being offset. Have used it a couple times w/ 4500w element to strip some beer, never any sign of heat. Today I'm using an adjustable DC transformer, 3v is moving enough air, and makes less noise.
I'll build another with an ammeter and voltmeter, just so I know what it is running. I'm also looking for a slide potentiometer, maybe use it with a vintage aviation or nautical throttle.

Law_Of_Ohms

500k slide potentiometers @ eBay

CothermanDistilling

I helped a friend build his first homebrew panel last night, a 12x12x8 Carlon panel from Home Depot, a PID for the Hot Liquor Tank element, and the SD DIY for the Boil Kettle. Tested out each controller with a keggle full of water, and worked perfectly the first time. Small holes top and bottom, putting the the SD cheapie thermometer probe inside to determine if fan is needed. No bus bar inside the panel, just ran a 30A circuit to each controller from a dedicated 2-pole breaker.

beyaz_kopek

@Law_Of_Ohms said: 500k slide potentiometers @ eBay

Earlier in the thread people were stating the pot needed to be 2W. But any of those will work, even if 0.5W?

Law_Of_Ohms

I've used 0.5W not recommended by manufacture tho